Announcement

Collapse

Get more Tips, Specs and Technical Data!

Did you know... this Forum is a service of the Studebaker Drivers Club? For more technical tips, specifications, history and tech data, visit the Tech Tips page at the SDC Homepage: www.studebakerdriversclub.com/tips.asp
See more
See less

Help! How to deal with broken(??) nut INSIDE the frame, for 57 Hawk floor support member?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Jeff_H
    replied
    Took a look at the un-touched passenger side A brace plate tonight. The drain hole in the center in the frame bottom plate is centered on the hole in the plate and a bit larger diameter compared to the hole in the plate. The driver side one is now smaller since I didn't have a bigger step drill bit when I re-plated the frame there.
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • bsrosell
    replied
    thanks Jeff. My Batwing has bolts in the four holes on each side (or are empty; rusted out bolts?). I'll have to wait and see what the underside of the frame looks like after the body is off and I start the frame restoration. If I can get at it to start it, I think what I might do is put a large heavy washer between the nut and frame (on inside of frame), predrill three holes around the bolt hole, and tack weld the washer to the frame. (and obviously will have to have previously welded the nut to the washer :-) But, a long ways down the road at the rate I'm going. Might finally get the driver's side floor welded in tomorrow!!! Clamped in place right now, just a couple more tweaks tomorrow morning and (drum roll please) my first real welding with my Mig, other than the front mount "spot welds". Progress!

    Leave a comment:


  • Jeff_H
    replied
    Jeff H., what year is your car, again? Sorry, I should remember, you've sent me so much helpful info and photos on this already this year!!!!!
    Its a '53. I think the batwings use the same 4 holes that the '53 uses rivets to attach the brace support plate in the picture. Does yours have that plate sandwiched above the batwing? I've never taken a later car apart, just saw a few pictures.

    As to the large drain holes... That picture was of the frame after I'd repaired it and then had it sand blasted. I drilled that hole since the bottom plate of the frame in that area was literally gone. But, the passenger side was OK. I'll need to check the car to see what that side looks like.... Seems to me that some of those plates the drain is not centered but I don't remember which ones anymore, thought it was one near the rear. The picture of the sandblasted frame is from about 1998 so my memory is suspect.

    There is another nut inside the frame like that for one of the reinforcmemnt plates for the seat. Maybe I am confusing that one with the one in discussion since I distinctly recall having to hold a nut up through the frame on a long socket extension from below while starting the bolt from above when I was putting the body back down on the chassis. I must have forgotten to fix (weld up) that one and by the time the frame was painted and body sitting on it was too late to do it.

    The plates do have a large hole in them. If the frame does not I would not hesitate to use a step drill and put one in the frame centered on the one already on the plate. That hole is not going to make the frame any weaker in that spot since the plate is there.

    I've used those rivnuts at a old employer in the shop but they were the smaller ones (like #8 screw sized I think) and aluminum. We used them to put threaded inserts into sheet metal so we could put removeable panels on enclosures. I think the install tool may be $$$$$ for a one time job.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dan Timberlake
    replied
    Several times I've used an Oxy Acetylene cutting torch to blast a broken bolt out of a threaded hole and leave the threads in good useable condition. Your situation has more confined space than I've dealt with though.

    Dan T

    Leave a comment:


  • woodysrods
    replied
    Nut Certs are okay if you can find good ones and have the larger nutcert tool.
    But, as pointed out above ... it is easy to weld in a fine thread nut or flange nut.
    Good Luck
    And
    Good Roads
    Brian

    Leave a comment:


  • tbirdtbird
    replied
    Nutserts is another brand similar to Riv nuts
    I am aware of 2 types, one with a good full shoulder and one with a really scimpy undersized shoulder, I never use the second type. Installing the larger sizes such as 1/4-20 and above has always been the problem for me, I like the tool pictured above, I gotta see if I can find that

    Also, on welding stainless, you can stick weld, or MIG, or TIG it just as easily as mild steel, I MIG it all the time. If you are welding a structure that is *all* stainless then you want stainless MIG wire so the weld won't rust. But for automotive purposes, just use your regular MIG wire and treat the weld for rust proofing the same as you are doing all the other metal. The nice thing is that the threads won't rust over time

    Leave a comment:


  • brian6373
    replied
    I've used the Riv-Nut system at work many times over the years, although they're called rivet nuts by our vendor, they work great! I have a set that has different sizes and threads. The installation tool pictured above is way different than the ones in my set and the rivet doesn't have a pin that you have to notch your hole to match, instead the outside of the rivet has grooves that grip the hole and keep it from turning that way. The installation tool I use looks kinda like a bolt and nut affair that you use a couple of open end wrenches like you would a puller with a single tool for each nut size. Much smaller and easier to get into tight places. My set came from our nut & bolt vendor, Hi-Line.

    Brian
    Last edited by brian6373; 12-17-2011, 07:08 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • allstateguy
    replied
    I think the Riv-Nut was the brand I was trying to remember in my earlier post. They have made my life easy, even when access was not an issue. Makes a clean looking setup when you don't want to futz with (or can't reach) the nut on the other side.

    I'm pretty sure I sourced mine locally. Copperstate Nut and Bolt is a big distributor in my part of the world.

    Leave a comment:


  • bsrosell
    replied
    yep, just watched the video. Regardless of where the access hole is on my frame (and maybe I'll find something squarely underneath when I peel off that batwing someday :-) I should be able to get one of those in without the special tool, even, by putting the mating clinch 'female' part on from the other side, since not really a 'blind' hole. Thanks for posting this.
    Originally posted by KJongenburger View Post
    I found this YouTube movie, see if it works

    Leave a comment:


  • bsrosell
    replied
    Yes, jclary said it all; great replies and I now have several ways to fix this RIGHT after I get the body off and have the naked frame to work with later.

    Jeff H., what year is your car, again? Sorry, I should remember, you've sent me so much helpful info and photos on this already this year!!!!!
    I would have thought the same thing, access holes under EVERY one of the nuts (I can see there are on other ones, i had been spraying their nuts with WD-40 occasionally..... in anticipation of removal someday) but as I probe the batwing area, my '57 does not appear to have a large hole centered on this one; there is a drain hole, but small and off-xenter, maybe because there are four OTHER bolt holes all around it to fasten the frame to the batwing itself? Until I get the body off and the batwing off, I'm not going to swear to it as maybe it is caked full of crud and I'm just not seeing it, but I've been shinng a shop-liight up through that SMALL drain hole trying to see what I was dealing with as well as probing with a drift pin originally and I get solid steel (or at least the feel of solid steel) under this bolt hole. We'll see. Regardless, the J-hook idea will carry me through the floor phase, and then I'll deal with it later.
    I like the looks of those "Riv-Nuts" now that I see full cross-section and different styles, I must not have been looking at the right page (and admit I was impatient, wanting something I could do this weekend, not ORDER) :- ) I don't get many "full free days" to work on her, and today is ONE OF THEM!
    BUT, now I'm going to look into those Riv-Nuts when I get the body off. Anyone already have a source? McMaster Carr or Grainger are where I'd start, or just google "Riv-Nuts" I guess..... But all in good time. Out to the shop to work with the hated sheet metal floor and brace!!! (can you tell I much prefer the mechanical parts of this hobby? :-)
    Thanks again to all of you who replied!!!!!
    Last edited by bsrosell; 12-17-2011, 05:55 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • KJongenburger
    replied
    I found this YouTube movie, see if it works
    Last edited by KJongenburger; 12-17-2011, 05:36 AM. Reason: fixed link

    Leave a comment:


  • jclary
    replied
    Originally posted by KJongenburger View Post
    You could try one of these:



    You drill out the hole or see if you can hammer away the nut. Then you slip one of these



    in the hole and pull it like a blind rivet with a tool like this which fits with a threaded tip in the thread of the nut.



    If you do it right it it is strong enough. These are all metric and I don't know the name of the stuff in English but I'm sure you can find it in the US in SAE sizes.
    Great post and reply! Keep this picture handy. I am sure it will be needed repeatedly in the future. I have used these and I think they are called "Riv-Nuts" in English. There are several ways to solve the problem posted here in this thread. This is one of the neatest.

    Leave a comment:


  • KJongenburger
    replied
    You could try one of these:



    You drill out the hole or see if you can hammer away the nut. Then you slip one of these



    in the hole and pull it like a blind rivet with a tool like this which fits with a threaded tip in the thread of the nut.



    If you do it right it it is strong enough. These are all metric and I don't know the name of the stuff in English but I'm sure you can find it in the US in SAE sizes.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jeff_H
    replied
    Had this same problem more than once.

    Each of the 3 (per side) body supports has a nut on the inside welded to the top of the frame. Fortunately, they should (not sure 100% anymore on all of them) line up with a large drain hole on the bottom that is centered on the plates riveted to the frame bottom flange where the body mount sits on. Certainly the A mount has this hole. You may need to take the batwing off to see it.

    The attached shows the hole (frame is upside down laying on the garage floor). These are normally riveted but the picture shows bolts since I had to remove the plate to fix some severe rot. In fact, the entire bottom plate of the frame was replaced for about 5' from behind the front cross member to 1/2 way under the seat...

    You can hold a flange nut up from underneath with a long socket through the drain and weld in from the top if accessable there or just start onto the bolt.
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • bsrosell
    replied
    Great idea Jack; that takes the urgency off doing ANYTHING now that is half-baked, and I really have almost no clearance to do any decent welding of ANYTHING there now. I already went to the hardware store and bought a J-hook of the correct size and that should hold things in place to position and tack-weld everything down. Thanks!!! (now why didn't I think of that.... :-)

    Originally posted by PackardV8 View Post
    If the body is coming back off later so it would be easier to do it correctly, you could drill a hole through the bottom of the frame and use a long bolt or a piece of all-thread just to hold your floor in place for welding. Alternately, make a J-bolt to hook through the hole until you're done welding.

    jack vines

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X