Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Confirm assumption about 'squaring up' and fitting doors in K-body Hardtop WITHOUT WINDOWS

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Fitting Doors

    There are some great comments here. I'll add my two cents.
    I have a canvas bag full of useless bits that I stuff inside the doors when I am fitting them. I use an old JC Taylor canvas bag, but anything that will hold about 12 pounds of old nails and useless junk should work. Let any of us know if you can't find 12 pounds of useless junk and we'll send you some.
    You should read the instructions on lining up all the Studebaker body panels.
    http://www.raylinrestoration.com/Tec.../BodyAlign.htm
    You can align the back of the door without the glass to the fixed part of the tub above the rear quarter panel and to the rear quarter itself. Cut out some packing foam and stuff it in the rubber channel to load the door out a bit.
    The floorboards are going to set the position of the rocker panels inside and out. Be sure you screw on the rockers with some self tapping sheet metal screws and check the rockers before you do too much. Also check for room under the door for the kick plate.
    Even if you don't change all the body mounts, make sure there is room for 3/16 or so under the batwing to A post body mount.
    If this sounds like given nothing, solve everything, and check three ways, it is. Put it all together, be happy with it, then walk away for at least an evening. When you can come back to it and find everything ok, then you can weld.
    As has been pointed out, this is one of the most rewarding projects people like us can do. Take your time.
    Bill
    http://www.rustyrestorations.org/index.php
    sigpic

    Comment


    • #17
      Make sure the frame is level. The shims should be put in place so as not to stress and pull things into alignment, but rather to support the body. You will often find the number of shims is not symetrical side to side. Don't go with much more than 3/16" rubber as the body will flex too much. Take up the slack with metal shims. Alignment is going to change once it is on the frame, so final adjustments are made after they are mated together.
      Last edited by bezhawk; 11-27-2011, 02:06 PM.
      Bez Auto Alchemy
      573-318-8948
      http://bezautoalchemy.com


      "Don't believe every internet quote" Abe Lincoln

      Comment


      • #18
        Hausdok,glad it amuses you! When I was in the trade,45 years ago till present,we adjusted body gaps much the same as you did. Among my favorite tools for adjusting gaps is/was a rubber sanding block,a rubber mallet,plastic bondo spreader,etc.
        Difference is,back then the car in question was new,or a couple years old!! Now we are doing these tricks of the trade on 50 year old specimens,with rust,wear and tear,road flex,flex cracks,rubber frames past their useable life expectancy,cars which are totally disassembled,and somewhat disassembled by mother nature,and not to mention previous repairs done over the last 50 years.
        BRosell,Thinking back on the c-body job-it also helped a lot on my car to bounce it around,and try to flex the body a LOT,during the reassembly,sort of trying to replicate what the car will go through as it drives down the road! If it was possible I'd have driven mine a few miles and then back to the shop to adjust the sheetmetal.
        Oglesby,Il.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by 52hawk View Post
          Hausdok,glad it amuses you! When I was in the trade,45 years ago till present,we adjusted body gaps much the same as you did. Among my favorite tools for adjusting gaps is/was a rubber sanding block,a rubber mallet,plastic bondo spreader,etc.
          Difference is,back then the car in question was new,or a couple years old!! Now we are doing these tricks of the trade on 50 year old specimens,with rust,wear and tear,road flex,flex cracks,rubber frames past their useable life expectancy,cars which are totally disassembled,and somewhat disassembled by mother nature,and not to mention previous repairs done over the last 50 years.
          BRosell,Thinking back on the c-body job-it also helped a lot on my car to bounce it around,and try to flex the body a LOT,during the reassembly,sort of trying to replicate what the car will go through as it drives down the road! If it was possible I'd have driven mine a few miles and then back to the shop to adjust the sheetmetal.
          Hi,

          Yeah, I wasn't suggesting that one try that with old cars; I just found it amusing how technical the discussion around this subject was when it was one of the most non-technical types of adjustments I could remember back in the day. As rusty as the base of my Hawk's right-front doorpost is, I can imagine trying that now and seeing the whole post move forward. Not a nice scenario.

          Someone mentioned above that relying on members to make some measurements could leave one in a world of hurt. I wasn't suggesting that one should rely on members' measurements and not do the hand fitting; only that if a dozen or so folks with relatively solid and untweaked K coupes could be prevailed upon to make, say, a half dozen specific measurements, and that information were pooled, that it might be possible to come up with a template for members to create one of those body gauges or a clamp-up jig that's as about as close as one can get outside of the original assembly line. One would still need to tweak things but if it were carefully thought out it might save someone some time and aggravation. The rear door post is pretty rigid. Clamp the jig there and then bring other parts to it, clamp them in place, tack weld the sheetmetal. Check the fit of the doors, tweak as necessary and then final weld. The doors all came off the same die; so if one were to make a template that matches the shape of the door perimeter exactly where the weatherstrip gasket will be that could be used with some quarter inch spacers (to account for the thickness of the perimeter weatherstrip gasket) to check alignment prior to tack welding.

          Another thing. I see photos of cars on rotisseries but, other than some door braces, I haven't seen anything providing the rigidness that the frame provides bolted to the underside of tubs to prevent them from flexing and twisting as they're maneuvered around with the rotisserie. It seems like it would make more sense to have those tubs as rigid as possible while in that rig. Perhaps a very solid, stiff, square and perfectly aligned steel jig that replicates the chassis rails, that's secured to the underside of the tub at all of the body bolt-up points could be fabricated for rotisserie work.

          Mike O'Handley
          Kenmore, Washington
          hausdok@msn.com
          Mike O'Handley, Cat Herder Third Class
          Kenmore, Washington
          hausdok@msn.com

          '58 Packard Hawk
          '05 Subaru Baja Turbo
          '71 Toyota Crown Coupe
          '69 Pontiac Firebird
          (What is it with me and discontinued/orphan cars?)

          Comment


          • #20
            Squaring up doors

            re: door adjusting. I remember hanging around the Ford garage when a new car came in. They would take the door upholstery off and tighten up screws inside the door, readjust the rockers and do all kinds of things I thought the factory should have done. The amazing one was the 2x4 they stuck under the door to raise the door to make it close better. I'll never forget the sound of the door hinges creaking on a brand new car.

            re: stiffening on the rotisserie. On the two cars I have done, I did not remove the body from the frame until the floor pans were replaced, the inside rear quarters were replaced and the doors aligned. Before I put it on the rotisserie, the floors were in, the doors were welded shut in two spots above and below the latch and the rear quarters were screwed on. At this point the tub was pretty stiff.
            Bill
            http://rustyrestorations.org/index.p...ideos&Itemid=3
            http://www.rustyrestorations.org/index.php
            sigpic

            Comment


            • #21
              Keep it coming! I learn something from every post. :-) thanks!
              Tonight was "grind off all the spotweld dots"... and I had thought I MIGHT get to priming the weld areas at least on my front support, but wanted to make sure I could get it in and see how it fit first.... No dice.
              I don't see how you can possibly get that front support brace in place, at least with the "smaller area" of floor that I cut out, without lifting the cowl up and over and then letting it back down and sit without a jack as I fit the floors. Am I missing some magic trick of manipulation and rotation here?? Here again is my cut out area, in case you are used to having more open space to work it into place.
              Attached Files

              Comment


              • #22
                Bill,

                Got any photos of that rotisserie you built? I've been trying to decide whether to buy one or build one myself of either steel or wood.

                Mike O'Handley
                Kenmore, Washington
                hausdok@msn.com
                Mike O'Handley, Cat Herder Third Class
                Kenmore, Washington
                hausdok@msn.com

                '58 Packard Hawk
                '05 Subaru Baja Turbo
                '71 Toyota Crown Coupe
                '69 Pontiac Firebird
                (What is it with me and discontinued/orphan cars?)

                Comment


                • #23
                  Maybe you could unbolt the batwing crossmember and lower it out of your way? Just a thought.
                  Dwight 54 Commander hardtop

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Mike, here's a top-notch rotisserie build page:

                    http://www.harwoodperformance.bizlan...ick/index.html
                    Proud NON-CASO

                    I do not prize the word "cheap." It is not a badge of honor...it is a symbol of despair. ~ William McKinley

                    If it is decreed that I should go down, then let me go down linked with the truth - let me die in the advocacy of what is just and right.- Lincoln

                    GOD BLESS AMERICA

                    Ephesians 6:10-17
                    Romans 15:13
                    Deuteronomy 31:6
                    Proverbs 28:1

                    Illegitimi non carborundum

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Hi Bob,

                      Thanks, that's a very kewl site as the kids would say and that rotisserie is pretty straightforward. I like the fact that he provides a cut list for the steel. Saves a whole lot of time when you don't have to waste time experimenting to figure out what you're gonna have.

                      Last night I was thinking back on this thread and it occurred to me that if I were to mount the body on the stripped chassis in the rotisserie the chassis would help pull things into alignment and I could mount the doors while it's in the rotisserie and tack them in place while I cut out and replace all that sheetmetal. Then I remembered the discussons about flexibility of these chassis. Now I'm thinking that a solid scratch-built jig that's straight and stiff mounted in the rotisserie with the body mounted can accomplish the same thing, only better.

                      Anyone have a factory detail drawing of the K chassis showing the exact factory dimensions and offsets and angles? With that, I can weld up a solid jig from square tubing.

                      Mike O'Handley
                      Kenmore, Washington
                      hausdok@msn.com
                      Mike O'Handley, Cat Herder Third Class
                      Kenmore, Washington
                      hausdok@msn.com

                      '58 Packard Hawk
                      '05 Subaru Baja Turbo
                      '71 Toyota Crown Coupe
                      '69 Pontiac Firebird
                      (What is it with me and discontinued/orphan cars?)

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by hausdok View Post
                        Hi Bob,

                        Thanks, that's a very kewl site as the kids would say and that rotisserie is pretty straightforward. I like the fact that he provides a cut list for the steel. Saves a whole lot of time when you don't have to waste time experimenting to figure out what you're gonna have.

                        Last night I was thinking back on this thread and it occurred to me that if I were to mount the body on the stripped chassis in the rotisserie the chassis would help pull things into alignment and I could mount the doors while it's in the rotisserie and tack them in place while I cut out and replace all that sheetmetal. Then I remembered the discussons about flexibility of these chassis. Now I'm thinking that a solid scratch-built jig that's straight and stiff mounted in the rotisserie with the body mounted can accomplish the same thing, only better.

                        Anyone have a factory detail drawing of the K chassis showing the exact factory dimensions and offsets and angles? With that, I can weld up a solid jig from square tubing.

                        Mike O'Handley
                        Kenmore, Washington
                        hausdok@msn.com
                        Mike

                        The 53/54 manual has a drawing that is hopefully what you need but I would need to dig it out to check. PM me and I'm see what I find if you don't have one. Somebody's gonna post you need one in the future and they are correct.

                        Just a thought about the jig method of repair. I'm not going to try to persuade you not to do it but when I set the 54K back on the chassis after totally rebuilding the underside of the body and repairing the frame, there was still movement in both. And not until the body was firmly bolted to the frame did the entire assembly stiffen up.

                        I welded framework inside to keep the door posts in position as well as the door gaps and width behind the doors.

                        I appreciate that the jig will hold everything rigid but it has to be removed at some point. JMO

                        Bob

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I did what Bob said, above. It went on the rotisserie after the floors were replaced while the car was still on the frame. While on the rotisserie we finished the welds on floors, trunk and new hog troughs. Gave the bottom it's final coat of paint and rustproofing, then set it back on the frame to send out to the body shop for final fit and finish. Can't get the Italics off!
                          Dave Warren (Perry Mason by day, Perry Como by night)

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I get ya' now Hausdok! You sound like a guy I could work with!! Yeah the laser measuring and book learnin' only gets you so far,then it's bend and pry, little here little there...
                            I remember the day I jacked up a new '69 or '70 Dodge Charger for it's FIRST oil change. Floor jack under the center front x-member,and couldn't open the drivers door-when I got it half way open,I realized I had to set it back on the floor to open the darn door---and that was a NEW car!!-so it ain't only our Studes !!!
                            Oglesby,Il.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Fitting Doors

                              Originally posted by hausdok View Post
                              Got any photos of that rotisserie you built? I've been trying to decide whether to buy one or build one myself of either steel or wood.
                              http://rides.webshots.com/album/581895877qGyjww
                              Works for me.
                              Bill
                              http://www.rustyrestorations.org/index.php
                              sigpic

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Thanks Bill, and thank you to the rest of you ror the answers. I hope Barry is getting as many ideas out of this thread as I am.

                                Mike O'Handley
                                Kenmore, Washington
                                hausdok@msn.com
                                Mike O'Handley, Cat Herder Third Class
                                Kenmore, Washington
                                hausdok@msn.com

                                '58 Packard Hawk
                                '05 Subaru Baja Turbo
                                '71 Toyota Crown Coupe
                                '69 Pontiac Firebird
                                (What is it with me and discontinued/orphan cars?)

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X