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  • #16
    Was out of town for thanksgiving and have not had a chance to get back into it yet. Been raining all weekend and didn't want to get it out. Will try soon. John

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    • #17
      I finally had some time to check out the overdrive. I removed the solenoid as tbirdtbird suggested and inserted a screwdriver into the pawl. It seemed liked it moved in and out slightly like it was supposed to do.
      I then removed the 3 screws from the governor and removed the small round plate. The inside was dry and the contacts were clicking and seemed like it was working properly. I also cleaned and filed the contacts. I put everything back together and took it for a test drive. Still no overdrive clicking in.
      Next Friday I will have a friend help me wire up the toggle switch and try to activate it from inside the car. I will keep you posted. John

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      • #18
        Good progress. keep us posted, we all learn from this stuff...
        1947 M5 under restoration
        a bunch of non-Stude stuff

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        • #19
          When you had the solenoid out, did you energize it on the bench with a bench battery to see if the pawl was moving in and out when energized / deenergized? BP
          We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

          G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

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          • #20
            have the wires to the solenoid been damaged ? then repaired with wire size not large enough to carry the amperage needed by the solenoid
            coil. this is a pretty big electro magnet and will require large amount of current to move the armature. I will keep watching and waiting for the fix.

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            • #21
              All the wires have been checked for continuity by an electrical shop. A few of the wires were replaced on the previous restoration a couple of years ago and the electrical shop felt they were large enough and in good condition. The overdrive was working perfectly, and I drove to a car show and afterward it wouldn't work anymore. Before I shut the engine off the throttle stuck a little bit. The only thing I could see causing it to stick was that it looked like the linkage could be hanging up on one of the lterminals to the kickdown switch. However, I replaced the kickdown switch and had all the tests from the shop manual performed and all tested well Again, also replaced the relay and the lockout switch. No wires were messed or anthing tinkered with before it stopped working.
              As to Bob Palma's (congrats on the good showing at the Pure Stock Drags) suggestion of bench testing the soleniod, I did not. The solenoid is clicking and doing what it should on all the tests.
              Rick Phillips, which some of you know, helped me perform tests on everything also. He gave me a known working soleniod off of one of his cars. It installed that one and the overdrive would not work afterward either.
              I keep wanting to link the problem to the throttle linkage hanging up. It sure seem to be electrical. Assuming no snow that is predicted tonight, hopefully we can work on it Fiiday as I am taking the day off work.
              Thanks for all the comments and help from all of you. John

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              • #22
                "suggestion of bench testing the solenoid, I did not"
                You ** really ** need to do this, clicking alone is not enough to see if the plunger moves in and out
                as stated I am not sure any modern 'electrical shop' would truly understand these circuits.
                You need an old-timer or a club member who knows just how these things work
                1947 M5 under restoration
                a bunch of non-Stude stuff

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                • #23
                  John: My friend Howe Clark has been following this thread but is not registered, so asked that I post this from his experience. He still has the Aero Blue 1950 Champion Starlight Coupe his late Father bought slightly used in 1950, and it's been fully restored. It has overdrive that works fine. Now.

                  But when he finally got it assembled and driving circa 1994, the overdrive did not work. All the electrical components checked out perfectly. Howe was advised by late Indy Chapter SDC member Joe Easterday that Howe had probably connected the wires at the kickdown switch incorrectly.

                  That is easy to do if you reference the overdrive wiring diagram in the Shop Manual, a general Wiring Diagram that has been reprinted many places for Borg-Warner overdrive circuits.

                  Howe advises that you must remember: The kickdown switch on the car is not oriented as it is in the wiring diagram. The terminals are the same and the wiring diagram is correct, but the kickdown switch itself, as installed on the car, is "upside down" from the wiring diagram.

                  Look at the wiring diagram on Page 252 of the 1950 Studebaker Shop Manual with the spine of the Shop Manual toward you. Terminal #7 appears in the upper left corner of the switch. But as installed on the car, the switch's orientation is such that terminal #7 winds up underneath the switch from that diagram, and in the lower right position, rather than upper left. (I.e., you must imagine yourself being underneath the switch looking up at it, rather than above the switch looking down on it, as in the Shop Manual.)

                  They couldn't print the shop manual that way because the terminals would be under the switch where you couldn't see them; they had to orient the switch as they did in the Shop Manual so you could see the terminals.

                  Joe Easterday was an excellent full-time Studebaker mechanic, but had made that mistake himself, and advised Howe as to the possibility. 'Turned out, that's all that was wrong with Howe's overdrive. As soon as Howe made the mental adjustment as to the switch and terminal orientation as installed on the car, he connected the kickdown switch wires properly and his overdrive worked fine. BP
                  We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

                  G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

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                  • #24
                    Wow! great stuff nowhere else but on this forum. There is no replacement for experience.This forum is the second thing I do every morning to get my stude juices flowing (you all know the first). Being a CASO I usually resort to the toggle switch on my ODs after the kick down dies.

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                    • #25
                      Thanks for the fix...... A mystery solved is happiness. And all of the help (?) you recieved mean we are not alone with our old studes...

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                      • #26
                        I never use the kickdown anyway....
                        1947 M5 under restoration
                        a bunch of non-Stude stuff

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                        • #27
                          I also recommend bench testing the solenoid . I have had to replace the points in more than one over the years. They often break and no longer make contact. You will still get proper continuity tests, but, internally no contact.
                          The symptoms are "it just quits working"
                          Bez Auto Alchemy
                          573-318-8948
                          http://bezautoalchemy.com


                          "Don't believe every internet quote" Abe Lincoln

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                          • #28
                            Bob--Thank you. I will check it out again. When the overdrive quit working the first thing I did was to replace the kickdown switch because I thought the throttle linkage hitting it may have caused a short. I labeled where every wire went with masking tape and was pretty careful to make sure I rehooked it up the same. That being said, it is pretty tight quarters down there and maybe I messed up. I will check today and see if they are correct. I also am getting ready to try the toggle switch idea and see if that works.
                            If no results, I will remove the soleniod and bench test. Rick Phillips gave me a solonoid to try that he said was working, but maybe it was faulty also.
                            John

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                            • #29
                              Well, late this afternoon we hooked a toggle swtch direct from the battery to the solenoid. The soleniod clicks when pulling the toggle at rest. At speed, the overdrive does not engage. I will pull the soleniod out tonight or this weekend to bench test it. I am not very optimistic, at this point. in that I have already tried another soleniod.
                              I would assume hooking the toggle direct would rule out the relay or kickdown. How about the governor? No oil then governor when I checked and the contacts seem to be working properly. The mechanic and Rick Phillips both tested the governor by placing the car on jack stamds and getting up to speed and the test light came on. They both said that indicates it is working. Will keep you posted. Any other ideas? John

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                              • #30
                                Hi,

                                I'm assuming you already have this but maybe not.

                                http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/mo...rticle.php?117

                                Mike O'Handley
                                Kenmore, Washington
                                hausdok@msn.com
                                Last edited by hausdok; 01-13-2012, 05:21 PM.
                                Mike O'Handley, Cat Herder Third Class
                                Kenmore, Washington
                                hausdok@msn.com

                                '58 Packard Hawk
                                '05 Subaru Baja Turbo
                                '71 Toyota Crown Coupe
                                '69 Pontiac Firebird
                                (What is it with me and discontinued/orphan cars?)

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