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Master Cyl.

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  • Brakes: Master Cyl.

    Ok guys, here's one for ya. My brakes got weak, so I checked the master Cyl. and the rear chamber was dry. Filled it up and got home. This weekend I went to do a total brake job, and found the right front wheel cyl. was weeping a bit. I replaced all the wheel cyl. and went to install a new master cyl. after bench bleeding it. The two brake lines (split system) had very large inverted flare fittings, and the new master cyl. had small holes, so I can't hook them up. Has anyone had this problem besides me? Any suggestions?
    Thanks, Brian

  • #2
    The 63 style of master cylinder had the large fittings. Later models used the smaller fittings. Either rebuild original, or replace hard lines to match new cylinder.
    Bez Auto Alchemy
    573-318-8948
    http://bezautoalchemy.com


    "Don't believe every internet quote" Abe Lincoln

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    • #3
      Brian, you can usually find adapter fittings at NAPA or a good hydraulic-hose store to connect your existing lines to your new MC. BP
      We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

      Ayn Rand:
      "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

      G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

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      • #4
        Went to the NAPA store to get the fittings, they recomended a hydraulic outfit, that isn't open today. I would like to rebuild the original mc as well. I like having a spare on the shelf. S.I. doesn't list a rebuild kit for this application in their cataloge. They do have new ones for over $300. Anyone know where I can get the kit for this?
        Thanks for the imput. it's nice to know what my options are. Brian

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        • #5
          I 'cheated' and bolted up a disc brake master cylinder for a 1968 Mustang (recommended by Turner Brakes) in lieu of the 1962 single reservoir unit that was dead. As per Chuck Collins's website; I hooked up the original line from the junction block to the rear port of the new MC, bought a 5' section of 3/16" brake line with fittings and ran it from the frame union to the front port. And I bought a pipe plug from NAPA to cap off where the original rear brake line lived @ the junction block.

          Guess what: I now have a solid brake pedal; just need to fab up a bracket to accept a 1960's Mustang brake light switch @ the push rod under the dash.

          The reason I went with the disc brake master cylinder is I'm planning to install a Turner Brake conversion one day.
          --------------------------------------

          Sold my 1962; Studeless at the moment

          Borrowed Bams50's sigline here:

          "Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

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          • #6
            1962larksedan:
            Wouldn't that give you problems with no residual valve for the front drum brakes which require one?
            A Disc. M/C would only have a valve for the rear drum brakes, unless you installed one.

            Also, if I remember correctly, then when you install the turner Kit, you will need a Power Brake Unit which may or may not be compatable with your non-power M/C, and certainly not your brake lines.
            StudeRich
            Second Generation Stude Driver,
            Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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            • #7
              Originally posted by bezhawk View Post
              The 63 style of master cylinder had the large fittings. Later models used the smaller fittings. Either rebuild original, or replace hard lines to match new cylinder.
              There is a problem with the DUAL circuit M/C for 1963 only, ie the one for 4 drums non-power. It is only used the in that particular configuration/style for one year, and the subsequent years look the same but have the slightly smaller fittings. The SINGLE circuit M/C used in 1962, or for 1963 and after with front disc and rear drums is much easier to find and much cheaper, but you can't use that one of course. I think some of the posters might have confused the two as you don't say, but the "price" remark is the giveaway.

              1) replacing the front wheel cylinder might solve your immediate problem of the dry rear reservoir <g>-- see #4 below
              2) the 1963 M/C is now rare, and the re manufactured one from SI, part # 1359771 is now $335.00!! That is about $200 more (and+) than just about any other contemporary Stude M/C
              3) the 64-66 M/C, part # 1561611, is only $135.95, but you would have to change the fittings
              4) you can look on Ebay etc for one, and maybe rebuilding one will be cheaper than buying a new one.
              5) Certain AMC models, Ambassador and the like in mid 70s, used the same M/C body, and are MUCH cheaper and readily available to order BUT there is a difference...the reservoirs are reversed from Studebaker, so you have to attach the front line to the back and vice versa. Taking a picture along of the Studebaker one will help you find the correct one. I have one of those as a backup "somewhere" but can't remember the part number. When you think about it carefully, I would hazzard a guess that Studebaker was 'backwards' from everyone else in the use of the reservoirs, not AMC. That might explain why the 1359771 is so hard to find nowadays. Small manufacturer, limited application within that small manufacturer, and definitely "different by design". Why they did this I don't know, but there must have been a reason for the engineers to do this. Anyone know??
              6) Be like me and start planning your eventual rebuild or repair long before it becomes a must do now item.
              7) If you DO convert eventually to the more modern brakes as in Turner power front disc (a great investment) you still would be unlikely to want to retrograde to a single circuit from dual circuits, as Studebaker originally had for Hawks and Larks for disc/drum.

              Bob Palma has the best/cheapest answer, IF you need a new master cylinder right now, but see if replacing the wheel cylinder and bleeding doesn't fix the immediate problem first.
              Last edited by Jim B PEI; 09-06-2011, 06:35 AM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by StudeRich View Post
                1962larksedan:
                Wouldn't that give you problems with no residual valve for the front drum brakes which require one?
                A Disc. M/C would only have a valve for the rear drum brakes, unless you installed one.

                Also, if I remember correctly, then when you install the turner Kit, you will need a Power Brake Unit which may or may not be compatable with your non-power M/C, and certainly not your brake lines.
                I believe the only reason that the residual check valve is there is to keep a light pressure on the brake shoes at all times...........though I have seen applications where the same MC was used fro both drum and disc brake fitted vehicles.

                My 1958 Mustang unit is for a PB equipped car; Ford did not offer manual disc brakes on anything in 1968.
                --------------------------------------

                Sold my 1962; Studeless at the moment

                Borrowed Bams50's sigline here:

                "Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

                Comment


                • #9
                  I hadn't realized until I read your post ,Jim, that I hadn't put down the model or year car I'm working on. It's a '63 Lark 4 dr. 259 3 spd. O.D. I know a lot of you are in favor of the disc brake conversion, and one can't disagree with the superior perfomance that discs give. I have the Studebaker disc set-up on the shelf, in cores and plan on using it, when I can afford to rebuild the components. For now the drums seem to do fine for the limited amount of driving that the car is used for, and was relativly inexpensive. Thanks to all for all the good info, and advice! Brian
                  Last edited by brian6373; 09-06-2011, 10:16 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by brian6373 View Post
                    I hadn't realized until I read your post ,Jim, that I hadn't put down the model or year car I'm working on. It's a '63 Lark 4 dr. 259 3 spd. O.D. I know a lot of you are in favor of the disc brake conversion, and one can't disagree with the superior perfomance that discs give. I have the Studebaker disc set-up on the shelf, in cores and plan on using it, when I can afford to rebuild the components. For now the drums seem to do fine for the limited amount of driving that the car is used for, and was relativly inexpensive. Thanks to all for all the good info, and advice! Brian
                    I knew it was a 63! That's a nice powertrain combo for a driver <g>
                    My 4 drum brakes (non-power) work just fine on my 63 259 Wagonaire with overdrive. Large and finned does help, and according to me anyway, power isn't really required. If it was designed right, with enough swept area like the later Studes and the full size Kaisers (which always had 11"), and its set up right, you don't really need power to stop safely

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                    • #11
                      I'm a big beliver in split brake systems. Way back I had a '64 Dodge dart and lost my brakes on a hill after blowing out a front brake hose. Swapped out the M.C. for a later Dart M.C. dual chamber that I got at a junkyard cheap. BTW, I saw a converion kit for an Avanti on ebay. Anyone recognize the Master cyl. they're selling? I'm thinking it would be good for when I install the Stude pwr disc brakes. Brian
                      Last edited by brian6373; 09-06-2011, 11:15 AM.

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                      • #12
                        BTW, I saw a converion kit for an Avanti on ebay. Anyone recognize the Master cyl. they're selling? I'm thinking it would be good for when I install the Stude pwr disc brakes

                        early 70's Chryslers, look in April 2001 Turning Wheels, in the co-operator section the M/C # is there.

                        Jim
                        "We can't all be Heroes, Some us just need to stand on the curb and clap as they go by" Will Rogers

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                        • #13
                          Thanks! Unfortunatly I don't have that issue. I joined the SDC in the fall of 'o9. I'll ask around the members of my local chapter, I'm sure someome's got a copy. Brian

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                          • #14
                            Update on the brake job. Back in the day when I worked in a Shell station, (three working bays and no mini-mart) this job would have taken me about three hours. The '63 mc. has 9/16" holes, finding the adapters to use the later mc proved to be virtully impossible. The later master cyl. 64 - 66 has 5/16" holes for the fittings. the standard inverted flare fittings on the brake lines are 3/16" for new brake tubing. I went to the NAPA store. I ended up using adapters and replacing the brake lines, which ment much bending and fitting to get close to stock routing. BTW, there is a clip on the frame just in front of the shifter arms that keep the brake line clear of these arms. When I removed the old brake line, this clip popped out. It took me an hour laying under the car to get this clip back in so's it would stay! O.K. now all I had to do is unbolt the old mc and install the new one. The captured nuts were rusted through and just spun. I got my girlfriend to turn the bolts while I held the nuts under the dash. Another trip to NAPA. Got new captured nuts and replaced all four. I figured I was there and might as well replace the upper two that don't hold the mc. About three hours total. Finally got the new mc installed and hooked up the lines. I ajusted the bake shoes and bled the system. I went to attatch the two wires on the brake light sw., one of the pins came off!!! By now it's 8:30 at night. I told my girlfriend we're going for a ride. She said "without brake lights?". I said " It"s IDYSD and by god we're gonna drive the #@* Studebaker"! Two spins around the block. The next morning I went into the NAPA store. They said "What now"? Just a brake light switch. Put it in and all is well. I now have an all new (exept for drums) brake system. Brian
                            Last edited by brian6373; 09-11-2011, 08:52 PM.

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