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  • Fuel System: This is an indication of?

    If gas is seen within the glass fuel filter bowl perculating...like little seltzer bubles.......this indicates what?

    Car is difficult to start when this is seen

  • #2
    I'm sure there may be other explanations, but I can tell you that one cause can be a pin hole in the fuel line between the tank and the fuel pump. The most likely spot is under the clip that holds the fuel line to the frame above the rear axle. It can make the car hard to start and actually die going uphill.
    Skip Lackie

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Hawklover View Post
      If gas is seen within the glass fuel filter bowl perculating...like little seltzer bubles.......this indicates what?

      Car is difficult to start when this is seen
      That's what it is doing, all right, percolating...which is to say, boiling!

      That is fuel turning to vapor. You can't push a column of vapor like you can push a column of liquid fuel. Hence, the car is hard to start because there is less liquid gasoline in the fuel system at the carburetor end and more vapor...which ultimately leads to vapor lock and it won't run at all until cooled down to the point where the vapor again condenses to liquid gasoline. BP
      We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

      Ayn Rand:
      "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

      G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

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      • #4
        It's a result of todays formulation of fuel. It isn't made for carbureted vehicles with low fuel pressures and vented to atmosphere.
        It IS formulated for closed high pressure (35 +) lbs.
        It takes very little heat to make it boil/vapor lock.
        An electric pump and a fuel return line is the most effective solution as you circulate cooler fuel instead of letting it heat soak under the hood.
        Bez Auto Alchemy
        573-318-8948
        http://bezautoalchemy.com


        "Don't believe every internet quote" Abe Lincoln

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        • #5
          Well the car does have a return line......but am not too sure about augmenting the Carter R-1 pump with an electric variety. I understand one pushes the other sucks the fuel, but do not understand how an electric can help ameliorate the problem?
          Originally posted by bezhawk View Post
          It's a result of todays formulation of fuel. It isn't made for carbureted vehicles with low fuel pressures and vented to atmosphere.
          It IS formulated for closed high pressure (35 +) lbs.
          It takes very little heat to make it boil/vapor lock.
          An electric pump and a fuel return line is the most effective solution as you circulate cooler fuel instead of letting it heat soak under the hood.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Hawklover View Post
            I understand one pushes the other sucks the fuel, but do not understand how an electric can help ameliorate the problem?
            əˈmēlyəˌrāt Verb: Make (something bad or unsatisfactory) better.

            I had to look that one up! <G>
            Paul
            Winston-Salem, NC
            Visit The Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: www.studebakerskytop.com

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Hawklover View Post
              Well the car does have a return line......but am not too sure about augmenting the Carter R-1 pump with an electric variety. I understand one pushes the other sucks the fuel, but do not understand how an electric can help ameliorate the problem?
              Great choice of verb, Two reasons for the improvement with the electric pump.

              1-The current pump must pull to move the fuel resulting in it pulling on vapor and fuel not fuel alone. They are not designed to pull vapor so the efficiency drops precipitously.

              2-Electric fuel pumps are located close to the fuel source and have a slight pressure head from the tank so the are pumping basically fuel and so are much more efficient. Secondly, the fuel stays under pressure throughout the lines until it hits the carb where vapors can be expelled. Same as the cooling system. Pressure leads to higher boiling points.

              Bob

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              • #8
                If you want to see a similar effect, last Saturday I got my semi weekly amount of gas in a 5 gallon gas can for the '55. While watching the fuel enter the can, I could see the fuel aerating or foaming in the can, while I was filling the can. It made topping the can off a little difficult, since the aerating and the metal strainer caused the fuel to bubble up, which requires me to stop filling the can until it settles back down. Now take that scenario and apply it to filling a automotive gas tank, or watching the fuel filter in this matter, and you're probably seeing the same effects.

                I only have an inline pump in my Lark(no mechanical pump), and only an electric pump in the '55. Both of them are at the outlet on the gas tank, and both of them push the fuel to the carb, rather than pull it by suction that is with a traditional mechanical pump. Because of a constant stream of fuel, the only time I've ever had trouble was on a 90 degree day when I was stuck in traffic with no circulation, but that was an extreme case.
                1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
                1963 Studebaker Daytona Hardtop with no engine or transmission
                1950 Studebaker 2R5 w/170 six cylinder and 3spd OD
                1955 Studebaker Commander Hardtop w/289 and 3spd OD and Megasquirt port fuel injection(among other things)

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                • #9
                  Well, with all the money my parents spent to educate their wacky son, every once in awhile I defer to the wonderful vocabulary drilled into me as an English major.........no I never taught English:-)
                  Originally posted by r1lark View Post
                  əˈmēlyəˌrāt Verb: Make (something bad or unsatisfactory) better.

                  I had to look that one up! <G>

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                  • #10
                    OK Bob, Since you are the proud owner of that Fiberglas Studebaker....(:-) ) how would one install same..and what about redundant safety precautions to prevent fire or fuel spill?
                    Originally posted by sweetolbob View Post
                    Great choice of verb, Two reasons for the improvement with the electric pump.

                    1-The current pump must pull to move the fuel resulting in it pulling on vapor and fuel not fuel alone. They are not designed to pull vapor so the efficiency drops precipitously.

                    2-Electric fuel pumps are located close to the fuel source and have a slight pressure head from the tank so the are pumping basically fuel and so are much more efficient. Secondly, the fuel stays under pressure throughout the lines until it hits the carb where vapors can be expelled. Same as the cooling system. Pressure leads to higher boiling points.

                    Bob

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Hawklover View Post
                      OK Bob, Since you are the proud owner of that Fiberglas Studebaker....(:-) ) how would one install same..and what about redundant safety precautions to prevent fire or fuel spill?
                      HL

                      My Avanti does have one to feed the EFI so here is what I did.

                      The pump is located on the frame at the low point in the fuel line. It's easier to do with the Avanti due to the tank height being quite a bit higher than the tank in the Hawk. So I'll defer to other members that have put them in a body style like yours. My 54 has an in-tank unit so that doesn't help much either.

                      But for safety sake, let's first remember that all new cars have electric pumps putting out 40-60 PSI so it's not rocket science, I'll describe what I did.

                      First off, replace all lines with new materials that will handle modern fuels. I used new steel lines to the pump and stainless braded EFI hose from the pump to the TBI.

                      Electrically, Be sure the pump only energizes with the ignition on. Secondly, I have a Big Red toggle in my in-dash switch panel that will also kill all power to the pump. Switch off, no fuel. I also have a yet to be installed Ford roll-over disconnect that may find it's way into the system someday.

                      And lastly, in the ashtray is a remote power disconnect that kills all power from the battery to everything. It's more of a theft deterrent but will also kill the pump.

                      I have more chance of the tank splitting and burning than having a serious problem with the pump.

                      And lastly, I installed a shutoff valve in the line before the filters and pump to make replacement a spill free event.

                      Hope that helps, Bob

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                      • #12
                        When i wanted to convert to an electric fuel pump, i was warned that it might force too much fuel into the carb & create problems. I was adbvised to use a flow-through low pressure fuel pump - a cheap holley - and uise it only before starting to refill the carburetor reservoir [gas evporated after sitting for a week or so]; otherwise it requires long cranking to start. Shut off the pump before starting; turn it on again when you are suffering from percolation or vapor lock. You would benefit from rerouting your gas line away from the exhaust pipe; make sure your heat shield is in place to shield the line when it is near the engine.

                        alanahasan

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                        • #13
                          Also, have a way to bipass the mechanical pump if you rupture the diaphram or you will have a crankcase full of gas. Jim

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