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brakes

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  • brakes

    Lost the brakes on my 65 cruiser, rebuilt the master cyl. and bled the brakes, still pedal goes to floor, could it the the brake booster? thanks. John

  • #2
    Sure it could. It could be the MC didn't get put back together right as well.
    Did you bleed the booster in the course of bleeding?

    Miscreant adrift in
    the BerStuda Triangle


    1957 Transtar 1/2ton
    1960 Larkvertible V8
    1958 Provincial wagon
    1953 Commander coupe

    No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

    Comment


    • #3
      How do you bleed the booster? doesn't look like there is any place to do that, and what is there to bleed? brakes were working good then I lost the pedal, they will come back with some pumping, the car has disc brakes. thanks for the help. John

      Comment


      • #4
        Cruiser is just a stand alone vacuum diaphram, I think Biggs had Hawk
        on the brain from the other Hydrovac posts. You are correct there is
        no place to bleed. Pedal going to the floor can be caused by a number
        of things. A leak is number one, make sure you done have fluid in
        the rear drums. If the booster is shot you cant bleed the brakes the
        old pump pump pump way. You can use a vacuum MityVac tool. That will
        still not solve your problem IF the booster is bad. Check the vacuum
        hose from the booster to the intake for leaks, & also the check valve
        pushed into the grommet. Usually those will cause a hard pedal, not
        one going to the floor.

        Tom

        '63 Avanti, zinc plated drilled & slotted 03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, soon: 97 Z28 T-56 6-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves, 'R3' 276 cam, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires
        '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
        Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
        http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
        I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

        Comment


        • #5
          I confess, I had a hydrovac pictured in the back of my head. It has a bleeder screw. The one in question here does not. [:I]

          Sometimes there's so many threads going at once that it's possible to confuse one with another. I usually proofread what I'm about to post and THEN read it again after I post it. I didn't do that in this instance. I was in a hurry to get to town and ship some stuff I'd sold on ebay.[8]

          Miscreant adrift in
          the BerStuda Triangle


          1957 Transtar 1/2ton
          1960 Larkvertible V8
          1958 Provincial wagon
          1953 Commander coupe

          No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks everybody, I have checked the front brakes but not the rear, I will do that tomorrow, it doesn't seem the brake booster would cause the problem. John

            Comment


            • #7
              Did you bench bleed the master cylinder before reinstalling?

              Frank van Doorn
              1962 GT Hawk 4 speed
              1963 Daytona Conv
              1941 Champion R-2 Rod
              Frank van Doorn
              Omaha, Ne.
              1962 GT Hawk 289 4 speed
              1941 Champion streetrod, R-2 Powered, GM 200-4R trans.
              1952 V-8 232 Commander State "Starliner" hardtop OD

              Comment


              • #8
                Bench bleeding can help. but even with air in the lines, I dont see it
                sinking to the floor - though it was mentioned that the pedal DOES come
                up after pumping it a while. First is to confirm there is no leaks. I
                think after he checks the rear cylinders, we can offer more help.

                Also check to see if its losing fluid .... is the level going down?

                Tom
                '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
                Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
                http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
                I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

                Comment


                • #9
                  Rear brake shoes are down to about 1/16, cylinders look good no leaks anywhere and fluid does not go down, bled front discs I will replace rear shoes and bleed the system again, sure is a puzzler as there can't be that many things to go wrong. thanks again for the help. John

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    John; is it possible that you honed it too far? I am trying to remember if a bi-passing piston seal will cause no pedal, I believe it does! I do think the problem is in the Master Cylinder.

                    StudeRich
                    Studebakers Northwest
                    Ferndale, WA
                    StudeRich
                    Second Generation Stude Driver,
                    Proud '54 Starliner Owner

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      actually the master cyl didn't need honing, looked like new, installed a new kit anyway, funny the brakes were working good when this happened, I thought myself that it was the master cylinder, no indication that this was going to happen as the brakes were good and then bad. John

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        How are you bleeding the brakes? The two person pump until you get
                        pedal, hold, open the valve, keep pressure, close bleeder screw method
                        or the mityvac vacuum pump method? You mention that with enough
                        pumping you finally get pedal, is this when you have the other person
                        hold the pedal down and than you open the screw? If you havent tried
                        it, you might do this with the engine running, as the vacuum will make
                        the power assist work, and could very well speed up the process.

                        Tom
                        '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
                        Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
                        http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
                        I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          quote:Originally posted by johns66

                          actually the master cyl didn't need honing, looked like new, installed a new kit anyway, funny the brakes were working good when this happened, I thought myself that it was the master cylinder, no indication that this was going to happen as the brakes were good and then bad. John
                          You really should lightly hone the inside of any brake cylinder before installing a new piston. The new rubber needs some friction to seat and seal properly.
                          Regarding the no/low pedal, perhaps the replacement master cylinder kit has a shorter piston than the original. This would keep the pedal linkage from pressing far enough. If the pedal feels spongy even when it is pumped up, you still have air in the system. Bench bleeding is very important.
                          I went through several quarts of brake fluid one time trying to bleed the brakes on my Wagonaire (disk type). It turned out the Hill Holder has a bleeder valve on the top (where it is virtually impossible to get at). Once I bled it, the pedal came right up.
                          A failed booster only causes the pedal to get much harder to push. It is possible to drive the car with a bad booster, but you will need strong leg muscles.


                          [img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/R-4.JPG[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/64L.JPG[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/64P.jpg[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/53K.jpg[/img=right]Paul Johnson
                          '53 Commander Starliner (since 1966)
                          '64 Daytona Wagonaire (original owner)
                          '64 Daytona Convertible (2006)
                          Museum R-4 engine
                          Paul Johnson, Wild and Wonderful West Virginia.
                          '64 Daytona Wagonaire, '64 Avanti R-1, Museum R-4 engine, '72 Gravely Model 430 with Onan engine

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            "bench bleeding" doesnt have to be done off the car, it can be done on
                            the car by disconnecting the brake line(s) on the side of the cylinder
                            and installing the plastic fitting(s) with rubber tube(s) and run them
                            up into the top of the master. Then pump the brakes. Once the air
                            bubbles stop, reconnect the line(s) and bleed the system.

                            Tom
                            '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
                            Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
                            http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
                            I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Well I have the brakes back!! rebuilt the master cylinder again, that didn't help so re bled the system and that did it!! question how did air get into the system as the master cyl. was never low?? very strange, I want to thank everyone for the help this sure is a great group. John

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