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'53 Commander Coupe - driveshaft is not the Beach Boys "Good Vibrations"

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  • #46
    Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK View Post
    Think of it this way.
    The crankshaft and the pinion need to be parallel.
    not 'in line', but parallel.
    If your pinion is down 4 degree's (from level), then your crank needs to be the same.
    The reason is to make the rollers in the u-joint oscillate.
    If they don't, the rollers will 'brinell' and groove the u-joint trunions and cups and wear out prematurely.

    Woudn't crank have to be up 4 degrees to be parallel? Not "the same"?

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK View Post
      Think of it this way.
      The crankshaft and the pinion need to be parallel.
      not 'in line', but parallel.

      Yes, that's the way you and I think, but if you read the artical in the link, it also makes reference that you COULD have the pinion pointing towards the ground at say 4 degrees, and also have the crankshaft pointing towards the ground at 4 degrees...this seems wrong. I just wanted clarification to see if I was understanding this correctly. Take a look at the diagrams in the artical and let me know. Thanks. Junior.
      sigpic
      1954 C5 Hamilton car.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by junior View Post
        Yes, that's the way you and I think, but if you read the artical in the link, it also makes reference that you COULD have the pinion pointing towards the ground at say 4 degrees, and also have the crankshaft pointing towards the ground at 4 degrees...this seems wrong. I just wanted clarification to see if I was understanding this correctly. Take a look at the diagrams in the artical and let me know. Thanks. Junior.
        If I read correctly the question is more than just parallel, but if the angles will cancel themselves out. I always thought "parallel is right" too. But I do trust the people at Ridetech to know of what they speak/type. My horizons have been expanded.
        Pat Dilling
        Olivehurst, CA
        Custom '53 Starlight aka STU COOL


        LS1 Engine Swap Journal: http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/jour...ournalid=33611

        Comment


        • #49
          Guys...
          Parallel does not mean aligned perfectly, it means 'in the same plane'.
          There could be a 3 inch difference in height, or side to side (engines moved to the right to clear a steering box, for example)
          If your pinion points down 4 degree's, your crankshaft should point down 4 degree's.
          The u-joint rollers will roll one way for half the shaft revolution and reverse that direction on the other half of the revolution.
          If things were in 'perfect' alignment, the rollers would never 'roll' and the trunion shaft in the u-joint, and the roller surface in the cup would see no revolution and the/each roller would pound a groove into the trunion shaft and cup (that's called 'brinelling').
          Severely shortened u-joint life will result in 'perfect' alignment)
          It's OK to have them out of alignment, as long as the angles match.
          Add four degree's up front...take four degree's out in the rear.
          It isn't rocket science, so don't make yourself nutz over it...
          Jeff



          Originally posted by Pat Dilling View Post
          If I read correctly the question is more than just parallel, but if the angles will cancel themselves out. I always thought "parallel is right" too. But I do trust the people at Ridetech to know of what they speak/type. My horizons have been expanded.
          HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

          Jeff


          Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



          Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK View Post
            Guys...
            Parallel does not mean aligned perfectly, it means 'in the same plane'.
            There could be a 3 inch difference in height, or side to side (engines moved to the right to clear a steering box, for example)
            If your pinion points down 4 degree's, your crankshaft should point down 4 degree's.
            The u-joint rollers will roll one way for half the shaft revolution and reverse that direction on the other half of the revolution.
            If things were in 'perfect' alignment, the rollers would never 'roll' and the trunion shaft in the u-joint, and the roller surface in the cup would see no revolution and the/each roller would pound a groove into the trunion shaft and cup (that's called 'brinelling').
            Severely shortened u-joint life will result in 'perfect' alignment)
            It's OK to have them out of alignment, as long as the angles match.
            Add four degree's up front...take four degree's out in the rear.
            It isn't rocket science, so don't make yourself nutz over it...
            Jeff

            Jeff

            Maybe i'm missing something, so let me know, if I am.

            I understand " same plane", left , right, up , down doesn't matter,got that.

            But if crank is down 4 degrees and pinion down 4 degrees, I don't see parallel.
            In the above case a line drawn/extended thru each centre line would eventually form a shallow V.

            If crank were down 4 degrees and pinion UP 4 degrees, I see parallel, lines drawn/extended thru centre line would never meet.
            Parallel.

            ?

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by johnod View Post
              Jeff

              Maybe i'm missing something, so let me know, if I am.

              I understand " same plane", left , right, up , down doesn't matter,got that.

              But if crank is down 4 degrees and pinion down 4 degrees, I don't see parallel.
              In the above case a line drawn/extended thru each centre line would eventually form a shallow V.

              If crank were down 4 degrees and pinion UP 4 degrees, I see parallel, lines drawn/extended thru centre line would never meet.
              Parallel.

              ?

              yup, that's what the Ridetech paper says, and it seems so 'wrong', so I think Pat said it well with his horizons being expanded...so have mine. If I try this with my car, I'm going to require 8 degrees of shimming to rotate the pinion to the required angle...that is way too much, I'd be surprised if I could even get 8 degree shims from the spring shop. I could also relocate my spring pads on the rearend, but I removed and re-located them two summers ago and really don't feel like doing that again just to experiment. still seems weird to me. Junior.
              sigpic
              1954 C5 Hamilton car.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by junior View Post
                yup, that's what the Ridetech paper says, and it seems so 'wrong', so I think Pat said it well with his horizons being expanded...so have mine. If I try this with my car, I'm going to require 8 degrees of shimming to rotate the pinion to the required angle...that is way too much, I'd be surprised if I could even get 8 degree shims from the spring shop. I could also relocate my spring pads on the rearend, but I removed and re-located them two summers ago and really don't feel like doing that again just to experiment. still seems weird to me. Junior.
                Aren't you running a 2 piece drive shaft?

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by johnod View Post
                  Aren't you running a 2 piece drive shaft?
                  2pce was last year, this year it's one of those new-fangeled ultra-light weight air shafts. Right now the car has no shaft as I'm working at a slower-than-a snail's pace on getting the 5spd. installed. Work, family, weather, taxes, health....you know life....keeps getting in the way. Got a new clutch kit and slave cylinder yesterday, hopefully get the flywheel faced next week so hopefully continue to move towards driveshaft issues soon. Junior.
                  sigpic
                  1954 C5 Hamilton car.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by junior View Post
                    2pce was last year, this year it's one of those new-fangeled ultra-light weight air shafts. Right now the car has no shaft as I'm working at a slower-than-a snail's pace on getting the 5spd. installed. Work, family, weather, taxes, health....you know life....keeps getting in the way. Got a new clutch kit and slave cylinder yesterday, hopefully get the flywheel faced next week so hopefully continue to move towards driveshaft issues soon. Junior.

                    So crank down, pinion up is the way to go from what I understood from the article.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Nose of pinion down ...nose of crank down.

                      /= crank /= pinion



                      Originally posted by johnod View Post
                      So crank down, pinion up is the way to go from what I understood from the article.
                      HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

                      Jeff


                      Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



                      Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK View Post
                        Nose of pinion down ...nose of crank down.

                        /= crank /= pinion

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          I don't think that's how it works in Studebaker-land, unfortunately. That's standard practice, but I think the pinion on a Stude actually is roughly parallel to the ground-ish, not up, so that the joint angle is equal front and rear, but the pinion and tailshaft are not parallel. DAGS for "broken back driveshaft" if my explanation wasn't clear.

                          nate
                          --
                          55 Commander Starlight
                          http://members.cox.net/njnagel

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Nate

                            The only mention I found was in some of your older posts.
                            Do you suppose it's a left over from the 53-4, 2 piece driveshaft parts bin?
                            (If I understand correctly 55 is a single drive shaft?)

                            Sounds very wrong, I'm surprised it works.
                            But I'm often surprised.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Junior this might be interesting to you.

                              http://www2.dana.com/pdf/J3311-1-HVTSS.PDF

                              Sounds like all you have to do is shim rear to 4 degrees up, to match engine angle and you got it ?

                              Will it clear the tunnell?
                              What engine are you running?

                              John

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by johnod View Post
                                Junior this might be interesting to you.

                                http://www2.dana.com/pdf/J3311-1-HVTSS.PDF

                                Sounds like all you have to do is shim rear to 4 degrees up, to match engine angle and you got it ?

                                Will it clear the tunnell?
                                What engine are you running?

                                John
                                Figure 9, pg 17 really caught my attention....pinion angle is NOT parallel to crankshaft angle, but IS parallel to the front driveshaft angle...wonder if this is the way Studebaker did it from the factory...very interesting, and learning every day. I had a quick look at this paper, but did not read it, will read later. Thanks so much. Junior
                                sigpic
                                1954 C5 Hamilton car.

                                Comment

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