'60 Lark new brake linings won't stop well

[GEEMAC]

Packard V8: brake shop in Tacoma Wash, been in business many, many yrs, nothing but brake work,they relined my brakes for my 45 m15, will lgo thru my notes and send address later, maybe some one in the Tacoma area might know of it too. Mac

[52 Ragtop]

Bud,
You still have that 2nd bedroom full????

Jim

[Bud]

I've had trouble with my Studebakers and the new non asbestos lining. The new stuff has alot lower friction coeffiecient than the old asbestos lining. The new lining is harder than the older lining and will wear the drums a bunch faster than the asbestos lining. The only advantage to the new lining is that it doesn't emit asbestos dust that is supposedly bad for your lungs. I had a 64 Champ 8E7 pickup that I used the new linings when doing a brake job and I thought that I had to do Fred Flintstone stops by dragging my feet on the pavement as the truck didn't want to stop. I found some NOS asbestos lining and installed it on the truck and the truck would then stop like it always did. I now have a stash of the older linings for my cars that should last for the rest of my time driving my Studebakers. Bud

[E. Davis]

Had the exact same problem with my 77 Firebird with manual (non power) brakes. Being a CAFBO I bought the long life hard pads so I wouldn't have to replace them for awhile. The long life ones were for power brakes had a metalic surface and were harder than the hubs of hell. The manual brake system just didn't have power enough to lock them up. I had practically no brakes and after checking with the parts house discovered I had to use the softest pad material for manual applications. I'll bet that is your problem too.

[N8N]

Jack may be on to something. I remember my '62 Daytona with original shoes would stop on a dime. My '55 with aftermarket shoes takes a little more pedal pressure to stop. Not a problem for me but with a slightly different pedal ratio and/or a lighter driver could be an issue.

nate

[PackardV8]

No idea where Packard Farm has their brake remans done. However, between the removal of asbestos from brake linings and most cars having power brakes, the lining materials are drastically different than the ones you originally had. The most likely possibility is those linings are just too hard for non-power brakes.

Do you still have the old shoes? Find a clutch and brake reman shop. (Not easy to do these days. Until a couple of months ago, I'd have sent you to Pacific Diesel Brake. Spokane just lost a wonderful resource. Right now, I don't know where to tell you to go ;>( However, brake shoes are dirt cheap. Rather than fighting the ones which don't work, I'd get some made specifically for non-power brakes.

jack vines

[Mike Van Veghten]

Stude -

There could be a multitude of reasons for your problem.

In "my" experience...not turning the drums (or rotors) ISN'T one of them.
In the 43(ish) years I've been messing with cars, the only time I've had a drum or rotor machined is when it was really messed up...as in the brake shoe wore into the drum (not MY car...!!!).
I've always, including last weekend (!) on my Larks front disc's, just reassembled, cleaned, and somewhat properly broke in the pads with several progressivly hard and faster...quick stops. I also replaced the rears a few months back, in the same maner (NO machining)...with no problems.

Stude259 -
Possible problems -
1. very hard shoe material
2. contaminated while sitting (possibly not visable)
3. shoes not matched properly to the diameter of the drum (two different diameters won't work well together)
4. early-on over heated, misadjusted (?), cylinders not returning properly (weak return springs)
5. just plain crummy shoe material to begin with...

Possibly a light sanding with some 40grit sand paper on the shoe material, and verify the drum surface is fairly clean, e.g., not heavily grooved, clean, NOT over the diameter limit...and try again. This will cause the drums to overheat and or go out of round during braking.

Good luck

Mike

[karterfred88]

Haven't had this type of problem in years-everything I've had since the 60's had front disk brakes and the rears never seemed to wear out. I think you didn't turn the drums when putting in the new linings, and the first few stops concentrated the lining contact to the high areas of the drums (highly polished) the new linings got hot and "cooked". You can try the backyard method of sanding-roughing up the linings and the drum surfaces using some coarse garnet paper, using brake clean to wipe off after and see if that helps. Also didn't mention if you bled the brakes after or checked the wheel cylinders. The additional thickness of the new linings will "push" the wheel cylinder pistons into the bores and can cause them to weep and lose pressure, peel back the boots to see if its wet in there. If so rebuild the cylinders, and if you have to do that , best to start from scratch and redo everything. You didn't mention how long the brakes you replaced were on there. Most brake lining companies removed asbestos from their composition in the late 80's. I doubt the ones that were on there were that old, but the replacements may have been a totally different compound than you had and there can be enormous differences in feel, stopping distances etc between them.

[stude259]

I've had my Lark V-8 with manual brakes for many years and the brakes always worked surprisingly well. I bought replacement linings from a Studebaker vendor (Packard Farm) years back before I needed them, and when I noticed the linings were almost worn out, about 2 years ago, I got around to putting them on (very carefully). Immediately thereafter, the brake pedal needed much more force, the brakes faded after a couple moderate stops and I got the smell of hot linings with the first moderate stop and afterward. At that time, I double checked the installation and could find nothing wrong. I thought that they possibly needed wearing in, so I continued to drive the car for 2 years (carefully) but they have never improved much. Soooo, I took the drums off today to inspect everything and can see nothing wrong: there is no grease on the linings or drum, the lining lengths measure the correct length (primary and secondary shoes), the little wear which has occurred appears even along the length of the linings (no sign of partial contact). The linings do seem very glazed- I can see reflections on them. They also have some surface cracks. My guess is the glazing is causing the problem. The shop manual talks about the possibility of glazing and new linings, but it says that can be removed by doing some hard stops until they give out a strong odor and letting them cool. That has been done many times over the last 2 years with no improvement. Maybe the old asbestos linings acted differently.

Does anyone have any thoughts? If the glazing is the problem, what can I do about it? Were there some brake shoes sold in the past with unsuitable lining material? I tried to attach photos, but it doesn't look like they attached. Thanks in advance for any help.