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1963 golden hawk rear brake drums

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  • #16
    Steve: Some of this isn't making sense, so I'll try to itemize:

    1. Pay attention to what Nate posted in #15. That's good advice.

    2. If your buddy removed the brake drum but the hub and studs remained on the end of the axle shaft, he did not use the proper puller! The reason the drum came off, as Nate intimates, is because the studs were not swadged to that drum. He is lucky he did not break that drum!

    3. Flanged axles were not a regular production option in 1963.

    4. If the car has large castle nuts at the ends of the axle shafts, it does not have flanged axles. Period.

    5. I'll not repeat all the other good advice here from previous posts, about removing the rear brake drums and hubs as a unit with a hub puller. This puller, when properly used, does not pull on the brake drum itself. Rather, when properly installed, it pushes in on the end of the axle shaft and pulls out on the hub studs (the studs onto which the tire and wheel assembly bolt to the axle when you finish the whole job.)

    6. Carefully use the hub puller to remove that remaining drum, per the instructions here in this thread.

    7. Finally, once you have the hub/drum assemblies removed, buy a complete flanged axle kit from Fairborn Studebaker and install flanged axles in the car. I recommend installing this kit due to the rarity and power of this car. It is simply too risky to keep "running" these tapered axles when it looks like someone has man-handled the brake drums, from what you said. Instructions will be included in the kit, telling you how to remove the brake drum(s) from the hub(s) and then reuse them on your car's rear brake assemblies.

    8. Don't worry about the existing rear wheel bearings on those old tapered axles. You get new rear wheel bearings in the Fairborn kit.

    Keep us posted, Steve, as that's a rare Super Hawk on which you guys are working. BP
    We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

    Ayn Rand:
    "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

    G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

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    • #17
      Steve, Be sure to tell him about the Bayou Cities Chapt & the Central TX Chapt!
      www.studebakersite.com
      Barry'd in Studes

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      • #18
        Nate

        does your comment about the rear drums being different than the ones used on all other 55-64 studes mean that this one has self adjusters or not?

        thanks for all your help.

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        • #19
          thanks for all the good advice

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          • #20
            Your Hawk should have front disc brakes and 11 inch finned drums. The adjusters are manual, but they are like BMW and other makes where an acentric wedge pushes on the shoes to adjust, Once adjusted, the lock nut is then snugged tight. It makes for fine adjustments, the shop manual covers this.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by stevee View Post
              Nate does your comment about the rear drums being different than the ones used on all other 55-64 studes mean that this one has self adjusters or not? thanks for all your help.
              I am not Nate, but I can tell you that the difference is WAY more than self adjusting or not! The rear drum brakes on Disc. Brake Studes. are a Wagner/Lockheed design and are of the non-self energizing type used on Trucks with the eccentric adjusters on each shoe.

              These are deliberately made not to assist in applying the pressure after the shoes touch the drum like just about all other "Bendix type" drum brakes out there.
              This is done for good reason, there were no equilizer valves in 1961-62 when these were developed or were not used, so normal drum brakes would lockup with the higher Power Disc. Brake line pressure required to apply the front Discs.

              One other thing different about them is the short lining shoe DOES NOT go forward like most others, the longest lining shoe goes forward!
              StudeRich
              Second Generation Stude Driver,
              Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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              • #22
                Have a look here

                http://www.studebaker-info.org/64v2488/Axle/ax.HTML

                pics are of a rear drum used with the factory front discs, what you should have

                unfortunately I can't find a good pictorial quickly of the "normal" Stude brakes and all my own pics are on another computer which I haven't fired up in months, but hopefully the above link will help you

                Bob's site has a lot of excellent info, also refer to either Bob's site or my own site for replacement parts (wheel cylinders, kits, hardware) you can buy at your FLAPS. If you need shoes they are likely vendor-only, as are the 11" front brake shoes for regular V-8 cars.

                One thing nobody's asked yet is why you are trying to pull the drums? Just to inspect things (nothing wrong with that and a good idea!) or is there a problem?

                Edit: if you only buy one book - but if your friend is keeping this car he should really have all three - IMHO you should get the chassis parts book, for all the exploded diagrams and part number listings. For a job like a brake job, I find that more helpful than the shop manual, because the shop manual assumes that everything is currently properly assembled, while these cars are now close to 50 years old at a minimum and that's not always a safe assumption to make!

                good luck

                nate
                Last edited by N8N; 01-16-2011, 05:32 AM.
                --
                55 Commander Starlight
                http://members.cox.net/njnagel

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                • #23
                  Great advice guys. y'alls analysis was spot on. The left rear had been"modified" with new lugs fit into the old hub, and the old drum slid on and off easily. Too easily actually, the lug holes in the drum showed wear in an oblong fashion from acceleration. The drum is likely toast. I will be hunting up another with hub and drum still mated together as one piece.

                  The right side hub and drum came off as one piece. It looks good except 2 lugs need to be replaced. I need to find a guy around here that sill knows how (and has the tools) to swage (sp?) them back in.

                  I agree with the comment about the shop manual, body parts and chassis parts manuals. I finished a 1950 champion body off restoration last july, and the manuals are all great, working together.

                  The weird part is that it is not my car, but I really want to help this guy get this one back on the road.

                  OH, great news, the motor numbers match, so it really is a package car, still with the original R2 in it. He fired it up today and it sounds strong.

                  I will keep you posted. I can't wait to take it for a ride. Next time I will try to include a picture.

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                  • #24
                    Cool beans, Steve. That's great news. We'd all like to see a picture or two if one of you guys knows how to post. It is still the dusty Super Red color? BP
                    We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

                    Ayn Rand:
                    "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

                    G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

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                    • #25
                      Apparently the paint faded terribly when it was in Idaho, so some surface rust started. The current owner quickly sanded and primed with red primer, so it mostly looks like red primer / really faded red.

                      I was pleasantly surprised at how good the floorboards were. I need to get him to keep this in a garage, not out in the driveway. Wish me luck.

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                      • #26
                        make sure that he knows that primer is NOT waterproof! I'd rather see it spotted with cheap red Krylon that doesn't really match than primer.

                        nate

                        (sorry, pet peeve)
                        --
                        55 Commander Starlight
                        http://members.cox.net/njnagel

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                        • #27
                          Forgot to add, make sure you get 11" drums not 10" when shopping for new ones! They actually come in 9" (for 6-cyl cars) 10" (most V-8 cars) and 11" (cars w/ front discs)

                          the 11" are the least common out of all of them...

                          nate
                          --
                          55 Commander Starlight
                          http://members.cox.net/njnagel

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                          • #28
                            Nate
                            I have a studebaker junkyard nearby.
                            Do you know how much these can be turned before they are considered out of spec? If the junkyard hubs have been turned too much, I sure don't want to buy them.
                            thanks,

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                            • #29
                              there was a thread on this recently... I believe the answer was .060" I am not sure as all my books are in storage and I can't look anything up at the moment.

                              I wonder if 11" front drums could be installed on your hubs in a pinch? anyone ever try this? or are the rears narrower? I neglected to capture the width of the shoes when I put together my interchange.

                              nate
                              --
                              55 Commander Starlight
                              http://members.cox.net/njnagel

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                              • #30
                                The outer edge of the inside of the drum has a bevel where the shoes do the work . This is usually the guide to service life.... if no bevel, toss them..
                                64 GT Hawk (K7)
                                1970 Avanti (R3)

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