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'62-64 Studebaker V8 full-flow blocks versus '51-62 by-pass filter blocks - a discussion

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  • '62-64 Studebaker V8 full-flow blocks versus '51-62 by-pass filter blocks - a discussion

    The Studebaker V8 used the industry standard by-pass oil filter bolted onto the top of the engine from 1951-1962. In 1962, they changed the oil filter system and added a screw-on full-flow filter on an adapter on the lower right side of the block. Over the years, it has seemed a no-brainer to always opt to buy and/or build a '62-64 full flow filter block. Filtering all the oil has got to be better than just some of it, right?

    Well, after years of study, research and disassembling many Studebaker V8s, none of the full-flow engines seemed much cleaner internally than a similarly maintained by-pass filter engines. Thus, I've come to the conclusion I will no longer be paying a premium for a full-flow block.

    1. For about the first fifty years, most Studebakers didn't have any sort of oil filter. Frequent oil changes were the norm. Purolator invented the by-pass filter and a version finally became available on Studes as an extra cost option. IIRC, an oil filter was always standard on the V8s.

    2. By-pass oil filters were the auto industry standard for many years and did a reasonably good job. A hydraulics engineer did the modeling for me and he proved at highway speeds 100% of the engine oil goes through the bypass filter every few minutes. It all gets filtered. The only possible working disadvantage to a by-pass filter is if someone dumped sand in the crankcase or small bits of the engine started shedding into the oil. A full-flow filter would catch more of the debris until it plugged up and began bypassing the contaminated oil. However, those are two extremely unlikely events, and I'll risk them.

    3. The earlier blocks are generally better castings with thicker walls than the later full-flow blocks. The '55-62 blocks are much more common and much less expensive to buy than the less common but more sought after full-flow blocks. (I offered to give a local Stude guy a '56 partial flow block but instead, he opted to pay me $150 for a '63 full flow. His money, his engine, his decision.)

    4. FWIW, by-pass oil filters are the latest, hottest add-on to diesel pickups. There are dozens of companies making them and the idea is the OEM full-flow filter is too coarse. Adding a fine-particulate by-pass filter catches the really little bits of nasty in the oil. Do a search for "by-pass oil filter system" and you'll have infinite reading.

    5. Every full-flow filter has a by-pass valve. If internal pressure gets too high, for instance when oil is cold, much of it is shunted past the filter. If there is too much debris and the filter is filled, the oil bypasses the filter.

    6. Adding a closed Positive Crankcase Ventilation valve system does much to help keep the oil clean. IMHO, no Stude which sees much mileage should be without one.

    I'd be interested in seeing your experiences and thinking on the subject.

    jack vines
    PackardV8

  • #2
    Is there a benefit for engine cooling with the full-flow block?
    sigpic
    In the middle of MinneSTUDEa.

    Comment


    • #3
      Interesting topic. But an oil filter was standard on few V-8s, Jack; optional on most. For example, Pub. PD62-22 is General Specifications for all 1962 cars, the last year in which an oil filter would have been optional at extra cost until the mid-year major block changes took place and a filter became standard. It specifies an oil filter as standard equipment only on the 1962 Hawk when the 1962 models were introduced; optional even on Cruisers, all of which were V-8s (domestic production).

      Through the 1951-early 1962 years, an oil filter may have been standard on certain V-8 models within a given year, but certainly not all of them. BP
      We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

      Ayn Rand:
      "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

      G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Is there a benefit for engine cooling with the full-flow block?
        None I've ever seen. Not easy to understand how there could be when the oil capacity is the same?

        an oil filter was standard on few V-8s; optional on most.
        I did give it the "IIRC" disclaimer. Would be interesting to know what percentage of cars came equipped with the by-pass filter. I've always dealt with trucks, Hawks and Avanti. All those I've owned or worked on had a filter. Maybe the higher end models were more likely to have had it.

        jack vines
        PackardV8

        Comment


        • #5
          Just when I was having an inferiority complex about wasting valuable rebuild money on the original by-pass filtered block to keep my Lark & engine married as it was delivered from South Bend in 1959, you gave me a smile, Jack.

          Comment


          • #6
            My current project car uses a partial flow block converted to full flow.
            Jim
            Often in error, never in doubt
            http://rabidsnailracing.blogspot.com/

            ____1966 Avanti II RQA 0088_______________1963 Avanti R2 63R3152____________http://rabidsnailracing.blogspot.com/

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by PackardV8 View Post
              Maybe the higher end models were more likely to have had it.

              jack vines
              Very possible. My '58 Commander has very, very few options. The 259 has gone the past 50 years with no filter. But I'm putting one on it, even though it was extremely clean inside for a high mileage engine.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by mbstude View Post
                Very possible. My '58 Commander has very, very few options. The 259 has gone the past 50 years with no filter. But I'm putting one on it, even though it was extremely clean inside for a high mileage engine.
                On the flip side, my 1963 Hawk's 289 (with standard filter) is extremely dirty inside. Upon removing the rocker arm covers, I found lots of thick black crud. Perhaps it has a lot to do with the type of oil used back in the day and/or how well the owner maintained the car?
                sigpic
                In the middle of MinneSTUDEa.

                Comment


                • #9
                  On a cold winter day about 15 or so years ago (cold as it relates to a winter day in South Carolina) I had pulled my '55 truck out of the man cave and left it running to warm up before running an errand. I walked back to the man cave for a few moments attending to some other project for just a few minutes.

                  As I was returning to my truck, I noticed a large puddle of oil forming on the concrete under the truck. I quickly shut the engine off and raised the hood. What I found was the old flexible oil lines on my by-pass oil filter had cracked and was dumping the oil on my driveway. I hate to think what could have happened if this had happened at speed on the highway.

                  In about 15 minutes, I had removed the broken line, Oil filter, and bracket. Plugged the oil gallery with a neat little 1/8" plug and never ran an oil filter again. In fact, of the four running Studebakers I have, only the '51 Land Cruiser is still sporting an oil filter. It uses steel tubing and no flex lines.

                  If I install filters again, they will also be plumbed without using flex hoses. My father drove a 1940 Chevrolet until 1969 that never had an oil filter.
                  John Clary
                  Greer, SC

                  SDC member since 1975

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I just got finished plumbing the filter on the '58's engine. Steel lines all the way!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'll add a comment about 4,5,6,...

                      About#4
                      The OE filter is not too coarse.
                      The reason for adding on additional filtering is twofold.
                      First, all of the pollution control after treatment of diesel engines tends to put the soot (that used to go out the tailpipe) into the oil.
                      That soot builds up and can cause acid problems, which goes after soft metals.
                      The need to regularly change engine oil in a diesel is even more important now, but the consumer wants longer service intervals.
                      So, the add on crowd had jumped in because the magazines tell people to buy the add on filter de-jour.
                      Adding additional filter capacity does not address the acid buildup situation.

                      Number five:
                      Yes, that is a requirement from the engine manufacturer.
                      If you completely clog up a full flow oil filter you won't have any filtration.
                      The pressure bypass valve also prevents pressure spikes at cold startup.
                      Note that on the partial flow system used on early Studes, the oil filter has no bypass valve, or anti drainback valve.
                      If a partial flow system filter gets clogged, the oil flow just stops.

                      Number Six:
                      The PCV valve not only helps to remove fumes from the crankcase, it does a good job of removing moisture, which helps the sludge and acid buildup condition.


                      Originally posted by PackardV8 View Post
                      <snip>
                      4. FWIW, by-pass oil filters are the latest, hottest add-on to diesel pickups. There are dozens of companies making them and the idea is the OEM full-flow filter is too coarse. Adding a fine-particulate by-pass filter catches the really little bits of nasty in the oil. Do a search for "by-pass oil filter system" and you'll have infinite reading.

                      5. Every full-flow filter has a by-pass valve. If internal pressure gets too high, for instance when oil is cold, much of it is shunted past the filter.
                      If there is too much debris and the filter is filled, the oil bypasses the filter.

                      6. Adding a closed Positive Crankcase Ventilation valve system does much to help keep the oil clean. IMHO, no Stude which sees much mileage should be without one.

                      I'd be interested in seeing your experiences and thinking on the subject.

                      jack vines
                      HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

                      Jeff


                      Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



                      Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by PackardV8 View Post
                        The Studebaker V8 used the industry standard by-pass oil filter bolted onto the top of the engine from 1951-1962. In 1962, they changed the oil filter system and added a screw-on full-flow filter on an adapter on the lower right side of the block. Over the years, it has seemed a no-brainer to always opt to buy and/or build a '62-64 full flow filter block. Filtering all the oil has got to be better than just some of it, right?

                        Well, after years of study, research and disassembling many Studebaker V8s, none of the full-flow engines seemed much cleaner internally than a similarly maintained by-pass filter engines. Thus, I've come to the conclusion I will no longer be paying a premium for a full-flow block.

                        1. For about the first fifty years, most Studebakers didn't have any sort of oil filter. Frequent oil changes were the norm. Purolator invented the by-pass filter and a version finally became available on Studes as an extra cost option. IIRC, an oil filter was always standard on the V8s.

                        2. By-pass oil filters were the auto industry standard for many years and did a reasonably good job. A hydraulics engineer did the modeling for me and he proved at highway speeds 100% of the engine oil goes through the bypass filter every few minutes. It all gets filtered. The only possible working disadvantage to a by-pass filter is if someone dumped sand in the crankcase or small bits of the engine started shedding into the oil. A full-flow filter would catch more of the debris until it plugged up and began bypassing the contaminated oil. However, those are two extremely unlikely events, and I'll risk them.

                        3. The earlier blocks are generally better castings with thicker walls than the later full-flow blocks. The '55-62 blocks are much more common and much less expensive to buy than the less common but more sought after full-flow blocks. (I offered to give a local Stude guy a '56 partial flow block but instead, he opted to pay me $150 for a '63 full flow. His money, his engine, his decision.)

                        4. FWIW, by-pass oil filters are the latest, hottest add-on to diesel pickups. There are dozens of companies making them and the idea is the OEM full-flow filter is too coarse. Adding a fine-particulate by-pass filter catches the really little bits of nasty in the oil. Do a search for "by-pass oil filter system" and you'll have infinite reading.

                        5. Every full-flow filter has a by-pass valve. If internal pressure gets too high, for instance when oil is cold, much of it is shunted past the filter. If there is too much debris and the filter is filled, the oil bypasses the filter.

                        6. Adding a closed Positive Crankcase Ventilation valve system does much to help keep the oil clean. IMHO, no Stude which sees much mileage should be without one.

                        I'd be interested in seeing your experiences and thinking on the subject.

                        jack vines
                        Technology aside, it just *feels* better to push just- filtered oil through your bearings than filter the remaining oil that did not go through them.
                        Ron Dame
                        '63 Champ

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by mbstude View Post
                          I just got finished plumbing the filter on the '58's engine. Steel lines all the way!
                          If you do that, I like the idea of putting a loop in the hard line to allow a little flex, similar to how more modern cars have them in the brake lines up by the master cylinder.

                          nate
                          --
                          55 Commander Starlight
                          http://members.cox.net/njnagel

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Also, Jeff, the use of turbos on diesel engines require cleaner oil, since the bearing tolerances in a turbo are so small. Also, the size of the oil passages in a turbo are rather small.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by N8N View Post
                              If you do that, I like the idea of putting a loop in the hard line to allow a little flex, similar to how more modern cars have them in the brake lines up by the master cylinder.

                              nate
                              I agree Nate, it is a clever way to make a rigid tube flexible and less likely to fatigue with vibration.
                              John Clary
                              Greer, SC

                              SDC member since 1975

                              Comment

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