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Old School Anti-Freeze........

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  • Old School Anti-Freeze........

    Assume for a moment that the green stuff (Etheline Glycol) in your cars shows that it will protect down to minus 10 degrees...and it has been in the car for at least five years.......do I have to flush drain and re-fill?

  • #2
    Of course not!

    But it would be an excellent idea to do so....<GGG> BP
    We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

    Ayn Rand:
    "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

    G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

    Comment


    • #3
      Heh heh....old school antifreeze used to be straight alcohol. You put in a 140 degree thermostat and checked the antifreeze every time you got gas, other wise it would evaporate away. Yep, it happened to me, 30 miles from home.

      Comment


      • #4
        Ok Bob,

        Why?...........if the anti freeze properties are still evident.........what mandates a drain and re-fill?

        Dummies want to know:-)

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Felix Benet View Post
          Ok Bob,

          Why?...........if the anti freeze properties are still evident.........what mandates a drain and re-fill?

          Dummies want to know:-)
          Because the anti-rust properties wear out and will no longer protect against rust and corrosion, or do a poor job of it.

          True, the ability of the mixture to not freeze doesn't change, to the best of my knowledge, but it will no longer protect against rust/corrosion after maybe two years.

          That said, here's the procedure I've used forever so you don't have to make a mess draining engine blocks periodically. I've used this procedure over 30 years on the three cars (of my seven) that I've had that long, and simply don't have cooling system problems:

          Every year (not every other year, but every single year in the fall), I drain only the radiator in each car after each has been thoroughly warmed up. Easily done.

          Then, I replace what I drained out with fresh 50/50 mix and a bottle of anti-rust / water-pump lubricant. Restart the car and allow the new and old to mix thoroughly before putting the car away.

          Three of my cars (1973 Mustang convertible, 1971 Barracuda convertible, 1964 Studebaker Daytona hardtop) I have owned more than 30 years each. That is the procedure I've used in each one all that time. Repairs / failures during those 30+ years:

          Mustang: One by-pass hose. All other hoses on that car are 1973 production hoses! Of course, I drive it very little to keep the miles down; fewer than 40 miles per year.

          Barracuda: The large by-pass hose on the front of those 318 V-8s.

          Studebaker: One core plug after about 20 years. But since I didn't buy the car until September 1977, I don't know what cooling system care it had previously that might have initiated the core plug corrosion.

          All three cars have the same water pumps on them as when purchased, which I believe to be the OEM pumps on each; "for sure" on the Mustang as it has only 17,890 miles on it and I bought it when it was less than 3 years old.

          My "newer" cars as to purchase year are:

          1972 Buick LeSabre Custom Convertible: 1994 (IIRC)
          1956 Packard Clipper Super Hardtop: 1992
          1964 Studebaker Daytona 4-door: 2002
          1964 Studebaker Daytona Convertible: 2007

          All receive the same treatment every fall, and have since purchase. It is easy and provides a constant change so you don't have to make a mess under the engine block(s) every two years. Further, many commercial garages are now accepting used anti-freeze. It is picked up in bulk, pumped out of 55-gallon drums on location, filtered and treated chemically, and can then be resold and reused as recycled anti-freeze, saving the material, resources, the planet, yadda, yadda, yadda....that is where all the anti-freeze mixture I drain out every year is taken, to a local commercial garage for recycling. BP
          Last edited by BobPalma; 11-26-2010, 02:26 PM.
          We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

          Ayn Rand:
          "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

          G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

          Comment


          • #6
            Bob P. - I notice that many local service facilities that advertise coolant changes say that they use recycled coolant for the refill. I don't go for this because I think tht what they put in may be worse than what they take out. I only believe in using new production antifreeze. Any comments?
            Gary L.
            Wappinger, NY

            SDC member since 1968
            Studebaker enthusiast much longer

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by studegary View Post
              Bob P. - I notice that many local service facilities that advertise coolant changes say that they use recycled coolant for the refill. I don't go for this because I think tht what they put in may be worse than what they take out. I only believe in using new production antifreeze. Any comments?
              The large commercial garage where I take my used material is run by two partners in their 30s/40s who are environmentally conscious, but not nuts. They simply operate their business with an eye toward recycling what they can, making sure fluids go where they can be reused if possible, cardboard to one recycler other than general trash, all scrap metals set aside to be picked up by the appropriate recyclers, etc. They are also extremely honest people who have their customer's best interests at heart. If anything happens to me, my wife knows that is the only place she is to take her car for service.

              (I do get a chuckle out of one of the two partners. His personal vehicle is a "lifted" HD Chevy 4X4 pickup on monster meats...sporting an extra-cost Indiana "Environment" license plate just like a Toyota Pious...oops, I mean Prius.)

              So I must take their word for it (and do) when they described to me the procedure whereby used anti-freeze is picked up, treated and filtered, and comes back certified to meet new-anti-freeze standards for contemporary product. It's what they use in customer cars, with disclosure...if a customer wants all-new material, they will get it. But most opt for recycled to save money, upon the shop's recommendation.

              I do not use it because it comes back specified as the one-size-fits-all product compatible with new OAT (Organic Acid Technology) anti freeze for newer cars. I want only ethylene glycol product in my collector cars, so I continue to buy it new and use as outlined above.

              This shop has been in business here about 22 years and enjoys a deservedly-fine reputation. They've now been installing recycled anti-freeze product, as described, about 4 years. I would think if problems were to surface in customer cars, they would be seeing them by now, but they have not. BP
              Last edited by BobPalma; 11-26-2010, 03:21 PM.
              We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

              Ayn Rand:
              "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

              G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Bob,
                I forgot........I did put No-Rosion in at that time....they claim over five yrs min until new af is needed.
                Originally posted by BobPalma View Post
                Because the anti-rust properties wear out and will no longer protect against rust and corrosion, or do a poor job of it.

                True, the ability of the mixture to not freeze doesn't change, to the best of my knowledge, but it will no longer protect against rust/corrosion after maybe two years.

                That said, here's the procedure I've used forever so you don't have to make a mess draining engine blocks periodically. I've used this procedure over 30 years on the three cars (of my seven) that I've had that long, and simply don't have cooling system problems:

                Every year (not every other year, but every single year in the fall), I drain only the radiator in each car after each has been thoroughly warmed up. Easily done.

                Then, I replace what I drained out with fresh 50/50 mix and a bottle of anti-rust / water-pump lubricant. Restart the car and allow the new and old to mix thoroughly before putting the car away.

                Three of my cars (1973 Mustang convertible, 1971 Barracuda convertible, 1964 Studebaker Daytona hardtop) I have owned more than 30 years each. That is the procedure I've used in each one all that time. Repairs / failures during those 30+ years:

                Mustang: One by-pass hose. All other hoses on that car are 1973 production hoses! Of course, I drive it very little to keep the miles down; fewer than 40 miles per year.

                Barracuda: The large by-pass hose on the front of those 318 V-8s.

                Studebaker: One core plug after about 20 years. But since I didn't buy the car until September 1977, I don't know what cooling system care it had previously that might have initiated the core plug corrosion.

                All three cars have the same water pumps on them as when purchased, which I believe to be the OEM pumps on each; "for sure" on the Mustang as it has only 17,890 miles on it and I bought it when it was less than 3 years old.

                My "newer" cars as to purchase year are:

                1972 Buick LeSabre Custom Convertible: 1994 (IIRC)
                1956 Packard Clipper Super Hardtop: 1992
                1964 Studebaker Daytona 4-door: 2002
                1964 Studebaker Daytona Convertible: 2007

                All receive the same treatment every fall, and have since purchase. It is easy and provides a constant change so you don't have to make a mess under the engine block(s) every two years. Further, many commercial garages are now accepting used anti-freeze. It is picked up in bulk, pumped out of 55-gallon drums on location, filtered and treated chemically, and can then be resold and reused as recycled anti-freeze, saving the material, resources, the planet, yadda, yadda, yadda....that is where all the anti-freeze mixture I drain out every year is taken, to a local commercial garage for recycling. BP

                Comment


                • #9
                  Glycols, both Ethylene and Propylene are corrosive therefore the addition of corrosion inhibitors - nitrites, borates tolytriazol etc, to protect the various metals found in the cooling system. The glycol doesn't really change, it's the inhibitors that complex with oxygen or oxides that 'wear out', a percentage them change and become ineffective - nitrites change to nitrates. I guess you could remove these with a chemical process, but for my money I'd use a new blend at each change. When to change ? is the $64,000 question, it all depends on the contaminant level, and that is dependant on engine use - load, temps reached, condition of the engine, (if not new when dosed). BP's addition of water pump lube is an excellent addition to the brew, just make sure it's compatible and doesn't reduce the efficacy of the corrosion inhibitors. All this goes without saying if you want to start using an anti-freeze mix on an old engine you don't know the history of, the system must be cleaned out. If the chemcials can't reach the metals due to a layer of corrosion or dirt they'll do jack S. Then there's electrolytic corrosion, but that's a completely different set of issues.

                  Would you drink Glycol - of course not !!!! But if you like ice cream you have been eating it ! Yes believe it or not they add Glycol to ice cream, but take heart, it's food grade ;-)
                  Last edited by Aussie Hawk; 11-26-2010, 03:34 PM.
                  Matt
                  Brisbane
                  Australia
                  sigpic

                  Visit my Blog: http://www.mattsoilyrag.blogspot.com.au/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Cheap skate here....I suppose one could filter their own used coolant and then add anti-corrosion and lubricant into it? Anybody try this technique? What did you use for filtering it?
                    sigpic
                    In the middle of MinneSTUDEa.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Last I checked, a gallon of antifreeze is less than $15.00. Why is this even being discussed? Flush it out once a year. Cheap insurance.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mbstude View Post
                        Last I checked, a gallon of antifreeze is less than $15.00. Why is this even being discussed? Flush it out once a year. Cheap insurance.
                        Good grief, Matthew; you guys live high on the hog down there.

                        Up here, our local farm store had fresh Durex full-strength, old-style, ethylene-glycol base anti-freeze on sale for only $6.99 a gallon last week, no limit.

                        As a Certified CASO (that would be CCASO), I'm now three cases of six each ahead for a couple years! BP
                        We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

                        Ayn Rand:
                        "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

                        G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Aussie Hawk View Post
                          Would you drink Glycol - of course not !!!! But if you like ice cream you have been eating it ! Yes believe it or not they add Glycol to ice cream, but take heart, it's food grade ;-)
                          Just to be specific here, the term Glycol is much to generic to be used when discussing food additives. Propylene Glycol is used in any number of products as a moisturizer and even a carrier for some non-water soluble drugs. It is GRAS in toxicology language (generally regarded as safe) because it and it's by-products pose no toxic issues in the human body at any reasonable exposure level.

                          Ethylene Glycol on the other hand is toxic in large doses, generally due to the effects of it's by-products on the human body.

                          So while there is only one carbon atom difference in the composition the difference in toxicology is dramatic.

                          So now to answer the question--Yes I would and do consume Propylene Glycol in my natural course of living, but Ethylene Glycol, not so much.

                          Aussie Hawk, I'm not trying to step on your comments but my chemical background just won't let me not comment. No offense intended

                          Bob
                          , ,

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by mbstude View Post
                            Last I checked, a gallon of antifreeze is less than $15.00. Why is this even being discussed? Flush it out once a year. Cheap insurance.
                            Simmer down Matt! The auto shops in my nearby town don't collect used anti-freeze from do-it-yourselfers, therefor it's inconvenient to get rid of properly. The county has toxic collection service one day each year, but it's always during the work week so I cant bring anything in. Sometimes reusing old things isn't a matter of saving money, but a matter of not having to dispose of it. On a related note, does anybody need a ton of used plastic grocery bags?
                            sigpic
                            In the middle of MinneSTUDEa.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hard to believe no one here is supporting opening up the drain cocks at the back of the engine. I personally can attest to enough sludge found there in many Studes, and at least one of them having the #7 cylinder get so hot (from lack of cooling) that the block required a .030 bore...You must remove and drain the back of the engine or those plugs will get so rusted you'll break them of in the block or worse...ask me how I know....

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