sloppy dial in symptoms

[E. Davis]

I was visiting with some of the guys in the car club today about the dial in procedure for Studebaker bell housings. Most of the post Stude people had never heard of it and some former Studebaker owners hadn't either and one or two knew about it but had never done one. Since I haven't either we were wondering what some of the symptoms of a non-or poor dial in would be. In other words how would you know whether after a bell removal it had been properly aligned when reinstalled.

[jclary]

It is my understanding that as long as you are "re-installing" the bellhousing, there is no need for dial in. As long as the engine is mated to the original bellhousing it came from the factory with, no additional dial in is required since it was done at the factory and the dowel pins are in place.

The dial in is required when you change the bellhousing. Then you will need to mate it with the engine per the manual instructions.

[BobPalma]

Automatic Transmission: The most common symptom is breaking flex plates.

Manual Transmission: Symptoms are many, including: Unexplained vibration at any speed; transmission popping out of gear for no apparent reason; difficulty shifting.

[E. Davis]

Thats interesting. I had a lot of 6 cylinder Champs and commanders and even one land cruiser when I was young and we were always swapping engines. I even installed a champion engine in a 49 jeep pickup with the aid of a warshawsky Co. adapter ( that dates me I guess) and never had any problems but then at that time vibrations and hard shifting trannys were the norm in those wore out cars and nobody paid any attention as long as it got you to the dance.

[Bob Andrews]

I was visiting with some of the guys in the car club today about the dial in procedure for Studebaker bell housings. Mosenginest of the post Stude people had never heard of it and some former Studebaker owners hadn't either and one or two knew about it but had never done one.

My experience as well. I've got decades of experience with racing engines of all kinds from the Big 3 including $50K engines capable of 8K RPMs for hudreds of oval-track laps and never heard of this being necesary; and thus have never done it. My racing buddies (none of whom 'get' my love for Studes) have fun teasing me about this. I just accept it as another lovable quirk <G>

I swap around any other engines or transmissions and never have to bother, but the knowlwdgeable folks all say we need to learn how and do it for Studes, for the above-listed reasons.

[BobPalma]

Don't get me wrong, guys; you can swap around and mismatch (from original production) engine blocks and bellhousings with impunity and not check anything...and maybe luck out.

Example: In January 1965, I was 19 and cousin George Krem was 23. We pulled the original 289 from his new 1964 Challenger and installed the brand new, factory-crated R3 engine right in front of the car's original, straight three-speed transmission and bellhousing! Yep; probably the only three-speed R3 ever created, but we did it! (He got a 4-speed for it shortly thereafter).

Anyway, we had neither the ability nor equipment to dial-indicate that R3 engine to the car's orginal bellhousing, so we just bolted it up and it worked fine; no problems.

OTOH, George later installed an R3 engine (a different one; not the one he bought new that we put in the Challenger) in a 1964 Daytona hardtop that had been built as an R1 Super Lark, pulling the original R1 engine. Again, bolted it right up to the factory Powershift transmission without dial-indicating the new block/torque converter housing combination (it was a Powershift).

George sold the car to Ron Hall, Ron and George being the best of friends, so Ron was fully aware of the non-dial installation, but elected to roll the dice. Ron drove the Lark from near Chicago to the 1977 SDC International Meet in Cincinnati OH, not all that far. The flex plate broke just outside Cincy, but Ron was able to hobble the car in to Meet HQ....whereupon, in over-100-degree weather, he bathed himself in transmission fluid while installing a new flex plate in the parking lot.

So, no one is saying you absolutely, positively must dial-indicate new block/housing combos while playing mix & match, but you take chances doing so with Studebaker components that are not applicable to other makes. BP

[Dan Timberlake]

John Greenwood was a successful Corvette road racer in the early 70s. Had a business building engines and cars. He won a couple of SCCA A-Production National Championships, placed well at Sebring in 1971 with Dick Smothers co-driving, several Trans-Am victories, competed at LeMans, Daytona and Sebring. His success prompted BF Goodrich to offer him major sponsorship if he competed on the newly developed street radial T/As.
Around 1985 He wrote a series of articles for "Corvette Fever" about preparing Corvette suspensions, brakes, etc for street performance and racing.

His comments about bell housing alignment are on page 29/32 here.
http://www.corvettefaq.com/c3/vip.pdf

Wonder if those 66 Chevelle shift arms would be a "short throw" modification for a Borg Warner trans in a Studebaker

[Dan Timberlake]

.............Since I haven't either we were wondering what some of the symptoms of a non-or poor dial in would be. In other words how would you know whether after a bell removal it had been properly aligned when reinstalled.

1959 Edsel factory manual says in the clutch section 7D "If noise occurs only when the pedal is three-quarters to fully depressed , with the engine running, the probable cause is misalignment between the engine and flywheel housing;....."

The repro Chiton's 1954-1963 Auto Repair manual lists misalignment of clutch to flywheel and crank beside 2 different symptoms: Grab/chatter, and Drag/gear clash.