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T85 and T90 interchange

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  • T85 and T90 interchange

    The T-90 OD in the Champ is tired and has a chipped tooth to boot. I've located a T85C OD, supposedly also out of a
    '63 truck. Is it a direct swap, or will I need to alter the driveshaft and/or shift rods, or anything else?

    Thanks
    Ron
    Ron Dame
    '63 Champ

  • #2
    It is a bolt-in to a V-8 Engine, but not a chance to a 6! If you want a car Trans. with taller gears and less power more economy in your Truck, you need a early (short tail) T-86 '51-'57 Commander, and then I believe on MOST models the input shaft is still too large for the 6 Cyl. clutch center hub.

    Am I remembering correctly Ron, you do have a 170 OHV 6 right?
    Last edited by StudeRich; 07-12-2010, 01:25 PM.
    StudeRich
    Second Generation Stude Driver,
    Proud '54 Starliner Owner

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by StudeRich View Post
      It is a bolt-in to a V-8 Engine, but not a chance to a 6! If you want a car Trans. with taller gears and less power more economy in your Truck, you need a early (short tail) T-86 '51-'57 Commander, and then I believe on MOST models the input shaft is still too large for the 6 Cyl. clutch center hub.

      Am I remembering correctly Ron, you do have a 170 OHV 6 right?
      True, it is an OHV 6, however later Champs (maybe starting with 7E?) I believe use a V8 bellhousing, and flywheel,, and the pilot is in the crank just like a V8.

      People, correct me if I am wrong.
      Ron Dame
      '63 Champ

      Comment


      • #4
        Can't happen, at least for the Bell housing and maybe more, the bolt pattern on the block is completely different on a 6 vs a V-8.

        Ok, the book sez: 1692188 Housing W/Bushing for 3 speed 6 Cyl. models 5 & 10 in BOTH the 57-'61 3E-6E Book for '61 AND the 7E Book for '62.

        Prior to '61 the flatheads used a diff. housing, two actually, one for Delco Starter one for Autolite.

        Here is your biggest clue ever: the Pinion, Main Drive (Trans. input shaft) is the same '57 all the way though to 1962, it's a 674891 which may go back to '53 R Series even. Of course it's for the T-90 for a small 6.

        The same 531576 CAR pressure plate was used '57-'62 on 6's.
        The Disc. -driven plate, is off only one number for '57-'61 it's 671074 for '62 it's a 671073.
        And on '57-'61 6 Cyl. Trucks they used that same '62 3 speed clutch on the 4 speeds, go figure!

        If you can get a good deal on a T-85 O.D. you should take it! Then down the road, when you get a REAL Engine you can use it! They are not easy to find in good shape.
        Last edited by StudeRich; 07-12-2010, 05:09 PM.
        StudeRich
        Second Generation Stude Driver,
        Proud '54 Starliner Owner

        Comment


        • #5
          Ron,

          Flying under the"as best as I can recall" banner

          I have spent that last few years collecting parts to install a T86 behind my OHV six and have found taxi parts that were also used on the later champ sixes. With the 8E six trucks, Studebaker used a larger backing plate on the six and a V8 flywheel I believe that one basic bellhousing was used and machined differently for the application (six/3spd ; V8/3spd/4spd) at least that is what I have infered from the champs that I have scrapped.

          I've got a 62 taxi transmission and its input shaft fits in the crank pilot. the main difference is the the sixes pilot is a bit shorter and turned down to 5/8" while the V8 pilot is 3/4 BUT there may be a difference in the 8E sixes pilots where everything was 3/4, I've never scrapped an 8E six

          You might be able to use the T85 with a six... your 185 six but the input shaft to the T85 may need to be turned down for the six application and as I have discovered collecting parts to bolt a T86 overdrive to an OHV six...anything can be done as long as you have time and money

          It may be cheaper in time and money to buy tranny guts and fix the T90, I rebuilt a standard T90 and it was not hard, I got my parts from a vintage Jeep shop close to me and spent less than$500.00 and 1/5 of that was for a cone shifter.

          Jeff T.
          \"I\'m getting nowhere as fast as I can\"
          The Replacements.

          Comment


          • #6
            So I am partly right in my memory about the bellhousing, it is a V8 casting, and the flywheel is also an 8. I do know that the pilot is also a V8. In fact, my current trans is out of an earlier truck that was an 8, but I never found out what year. It did have a 6 volt solenoid though. I bought it because my old trans was neither an overdrive unit, and it was noisy. This one is quieter, but you do hear it click in first and reverse because of the chipped tooth, and it does have a little bearing noise and tired synchros. Too bad the guy who sold it to me said it was in really good condition, and then when I got it and found out it wasn't that great, he stopped answering my calls.

            My initial idea was to rebuild this one, but when I caught wind of this T-85, I thought I'd see if it would work. I know the seller is a stand-up guy. If there is too much finageling to make it work, I'll just keep planning my rebuild.


            Originally posted by Jeff T. View Post
            Ron,

            Flying under the"as best as I can recall" banner

            I have spent that last few years collecting parts to install a T86 behind my OHV six and have found taxi parts that were also used on the later champ sixes. With the 8E six trucks, Studebaker used a larger backing plate on the six and a V8 flywheel I believe that one basic bellhousing was used and machined differently for the application (six/3spd ; V8/3spd/4spd) at least that is what I have infered from the champs that I have scrapped.

            I've got a 62 taxi transmission and its input shaft fits in the crank pilot. the main difference is the the sixes pilot is a bit shorter and turned down to 5/8" while the V8 pilot is 3/4 BUT there may be a difference in the 8E sixes pilots where everything was 3/4, I've never scrapped an 8E six

            You might be able to use the T85 with a six... your 185 six but the input shaft to the T85 may need to be turned down for the six application and as I have discovered collecting parts to bolt a T86 overdrive to an OHV six...anything can be done as long as you have time and money

            It may be cheaper in time and money to buy tranny guts and fix the T90, I rebuilt a standard T90 and it was not hard, I got my parts from a vintage Jeep shop close to me and spent less than$500.00 and 1/5 of that was for a cone shifter.

            Jeff T.
            Last edited by Ron Dame; 07-13-2010, 11:42 AM.
            Ron Dame
            '63 Champ

            Comment


            • #7
              I finally unearthed my parts manual. True, parts numbers changed, why I do not know. Remember mine is an 8E...the 7E reference was trying to recall when I thought the change was made.

              In all, I might or might not be able to make the T85 fit, but I don't need that stout a tranny.I was just looking for a quick swap instead of pulling ine, dis-assembling, then searching for parts...blah blah..time you know.

              I'd just like to get either a good T90 OD or fix mine.

              So I'll check with the seller of the T85 and see if he'd like me to post it here .



              QUOTE=StudeRich;472528]Can't happen, at least for the Bell housing and maybe more, the bolt pattern on the block is completely different on a 6 vs a V-8.

              Ok, the book sez: 1692188 Housing W/Bushing for 3 speed 6 Cyl. models 5 & 10 in BOTH the 57-'61 3E-6E Book for '61 AND the 7E Book for '62.

              Prior to '61 the flatheads used a diff. housing, two actually, one for Delco Starter one for Autolite.

              Here is your biggest clue ever: the Pinion, Main Drive (Trans. input shaft) is the same '57 all the way though to 1962, it's a 674891 which may go back to '53 R Series even. Of course it's for the T-90 for a small 6.

              The same 531576 CAR pressure plate was used '57-'62 on 6's.
              The Disc. -driven plate, is off only one number for '57-'61 it's 671074 for '62 it's a 671073.
              And on '57-'61 6 Cyl. Trucks they used that same '62 3 speed clutch on the 4 speeds, go figure!

              If you can get a good deal on a T-85 O.D. you should take it! Then down the road, when you get a REAL Engine you can use it! They are not easy to find in good shape.[/QUOTE]
              Ron Dame
              '63 Champ

              Comment


              • #8
                Last I heard, SASCO had T-90 trannys new. You might check with SI and see if they have any now.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by whacker View Post
                  Last I heard, SASCO had T-90 trannys new. You might check with SI and see if they have any now.
                  Whoodathunk? I am still surprised at what all is left. Even if I get one with teh wrong input shaft, but good innards, I can make a good one out of 2
                  Ron Dame
                  '63 Champ

                  Comment

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