232 performance cam question/idea.

[silverhawk]

The 232" is literally the least desirable of all the Stude V8s. Small bore, small valves, small ports.

Bottom line, no one will really know block you've got in your Stude. If you want to do it the hard way, go for it. If you want the most performance for your dollar, take the advice.

jack vines

No worries, I see what you guys are saying, and I appreciate the opinions, and I'm not ruling them out.

This car is going to be a mild hot rod when done. My plan is flat blue paint, classic pinstriping, '50s accessories, ect. Since it has a good running 232, I'd like to just use that. I'm not trying to make a street demon, just something different, and can possibly not get tripped up in it's own feet! LOL!

[gordr]

If I remember right, the lifters for the 232 are much larger in diameter than those for the later V8s. I don't know if that would preclude using a later cam or not, but it is certain that the later cams were designed with the smaller lifters in mind.

[silverhawk]

Hmmm, good point! I forgot about those! It shall be a good thing to remember if I do any of these things.

[Dwain G.]

I once bought a '53 coupe with a blown-up (literally. I used pieces of it to make hard luck trophies) '56 259. I had a 232 that I freshened up and sent the cam to Delta cams. I asked for an R1 grind. I don't know what the specs really were, don't think I even got a spec sheet. But I was very happy with it. Very subtle lope at idle and good low end power. Car had a WCFB and a 4-speed, ran really well. (Why did I ever sell that car...why?...why?)
I'd do it. Just remember, it's only a 232.

[53k]

Keep in mind that Ted Harbit did pretty well for quite a while with an undesirable 232.

[silverhawk]

Thanks for the encouragement!!!!

[Mike Van Veghten]

Great reading....! Funny...but good.
I espicially like the myths that are noted.

Silver -
One thing to remember....in doing something "different" (I've done this most of my life!), normally, different is something visual, not something that can't be seen. On one hand, sticking with the really small engine (232), it will run like one. All the references to Ted's work....remember, those were "race" engines..!
On the other hand, there's something to be said for rounding up another engine and being able to still drive the car while you are working on it, as noted above.

As to the combustion chambers, there's a coupla things here. One is the larger size, lower compression ratio (you knew that), the other is the valve overhang. Remember, the valves overhang the cylinders on a 259/289 also. So now, with the greater overhang and with the smaller bore, this will make the "chamber", (cylinder, piston and actual chamber roof), of this combination, "very" ineffecient.
I'd bet...without a lot of carefull work in this area (e.g..race engine work), the extream overhang will almost negate the larger head ports possible increase. Remember, we're talking about having the intake and exhaust air having to negociate a hard sharp corner to fill the chamber (or leave)...not good for properly filling or emptying the chambers.

I'd do one of two things -
1. stick with the small engine and do some porting (valve work) to the small heads and you can tell everyone that it's a small engine with ported heads...that IS different.
2. go to the larger engine, and if you want different...install a 3x2 manifold assembly. THAT...will turn heads.

Mike

P.s. - as for the larger heads on the 232 mentiond above...I'd be willing to bet that there is MUCH more to that story than just a little work and it ran great. Not saying it didn't happen..but one persons ...running great and another persons running great.....can be like apples and oranges..!

[Michidan]

Hey guys,

Me and my dad might be getting another stude (Mom says we have to get the house painted, and a fence built first, fun fun! LOL!) It's a 52 Commander 4 door, with a automatic; and comes with a '51 front clip.

Dylan...did you get the 52 clip as well? I need to get serious about finding a decent grill.

[silverhawk]

Great reading....! Funny...but good.
I espicially like the myths that are noted.

Silver -
One thing to remember....in doing something "different" (I've done this most of my life!), normally, different is something visual, not something that can't be seen. On one hand, sticking with the really small engine (232), it will run like one. All the references to Ted's work....remember, those were "race" engines..!
On the other hand, there's something to be said for rounding up another engine and being able to still drive the car while you are working on it, as noted above.

As to the combustion chambers, there's a coupla things here. One is the larger size, lower compression ratio (you knew that), the other is the valve overhang. Remember, the valves overhang the cylinders on a 259/289 also. So now, with the greater overhang and with the smaller bore, this will make the "chamber", (cylinder, piston and actual chamber roof), of this combination, "very" ineffecient.
I'd bet...without a lot of carefull work in this area (e.g..race engine work), the extream overhang will almost negate the larger head ports possible increase. Remember, we're talking about having the intake and exhaust air having to negociate a hard sharp corner to fill the chamber (or leave)...not good for properly filling or emptying the chambers.

I'd do one of two things -
1. stick with the small engine and do some porting (valve work) to the small heads and you can tell everyone that it's a small engine with ported heads...that IS different.
2. go to the larger engine, and if you want different...install a 3x2 manifold assembly. THAT...will turn heads.

Mike

P.s. - as for the larger heads on the 232 mentiond above...I'd be willing to bet that there is MUCH more to that story than just a little work and it ran great. Not saying it didn't happen..but one persons ...running great and another persons running great.....can be like apples and oranges..!

Thanks for your input, I appreciate it.

[silverhawk]

Dylan...did you get the 52 clip as well? I need to get serious about finding a decent grill.

We haven't got the car yet, since we got to get the house and fence done. But, if/when we get it, I'll keep you in mind if it has a decent grill. It's going to come with the '52 clip, AND the '51 clip, so I won't be needing that grill.

[Bud]

I agree with Mike, I believe that the engineers at Studebaker knew what they were doing when they designed the heads for the 232. The 232 is a fairly low compression engine and installing larger combustion chamber heads on the engine will lower the compression ratio even further. I don't believe that there is a difference in the 232 lifters with the exception of the oil drain holes toward the lower edge of the lifter. I would have to check, but I think the cam part numbers are the same for all of the non R series V8 engines as I have one of the steel replacement cams that Studebaker used to replace the cams that suffered an early failure in the early V8's. I used it in the 289 in my 64 Champ for years with good results. I still have the cam, but not the truck. Bud

[PackardV8]

The 232"s used a 1" diameter lifter. They definitely were different than the '55 and later lifters. However, that isn't a deal-breaker unless you need to replace one and they are unobtanium to find new.

Bottom line, if someone drove in with a free 232" I wouldn't take it as a gift. I can't bear to scrap Stude parts and I wouldn't waste my money rebuilding a 232". Your money, your car, your decision.

Re-thinking this stance, if a rich guy offered to completely underwrite a Bonneville car, I'd use the 232" block to build a twin-turbo 183" engine. The 232" block was hell-for-stout and the 1" lifters would be an advantage with a max-effort roller cam. I figure about $50,000 ought to do it, of which the free 232" block would be the least of the cost.

thnx, jack vines

[Bud]

You're right, I had forgotten that the later V8's use a .904 diameter lifter and the 232 uses a 1.000 lifter. That shows how long it has been since I've done anything with a 232 except remove it and install a 289. Bud

[silverhawk]

Haha! Thanks guys!