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Avanti broken exhaust bolt patched, now polishing

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  • Avanti broken exhaust bolt patched, now polishing

    UPDATES AT LAST POST

    OK, I think that my Avanti just doesnt WANT to go to the show, could
    it be shy? I dont know. Never turns red during picture taking.....

    I drove the Avanti to work on Friday, getting off the freeway, it was
    pretty obvious that something had broken. I had a decent exhaust leak
    that wasnt that bad before. Today I jacked up the car, and found that
    the gaskets on BOTH head pipes were GONE, toast, blown out. The pass
    side I had replaced a cracked manifold years ago, so it came apart in
    the normal easy way. The drivers side has never been touched while I
    have had the car, and as you may have guessed, didnt come apart that
    easily. The first problem was one of the lower bolts broke off. Then
    I removed the booster to get to the manifold to head bolts. The front
    two came off easily, but the middle two, and 5th bolt back had rusted
    away to a 14 mm head size. The 6th bolt had become a 1/2 head size.
    I found out that you can get to these from the wheel well easily. It
    turned out, however, that the 6th bolt was broken YEARS ago, & while
    trying to get the bolt loose (the head and broken off part was still
    in the manifold) I broke the bolt AGAIN (yeah, no joke) because the
    shaft was rusted into the manifold hole!! After I got the manifold
    out of the car, I had to use a 3 pound sledge to knock what was left
    of the bolt shaft out of the hole! Rust is amazing. So I have a bolt
    broken off in the farthest back exhaust bolt hole in the head. I dont
    think that I can get in there with a drill, and pulling the head at
    this point is out of the question. I am thinking that with the 5th
    bolt in there, it will be "good enough" to get road worthy again. Is
    there any other exhaust manifold gaskets available besides the steel
    ones? I think that a coated gasket will increase my chances of not
    having a leak anytime soon (with 5 bolts).

    Second question ... any tips on getting that lower broken off bolt out
    of the exhaust manifold? If the guys at my work cant do it, I think I
    will jet up to the Hawk up on the hill, and pull the manifold off it.

    Tom
    '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
    Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
    http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
    I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

  • #2
    With the manifold off. They are soft, dill and replace both of them.
    Klif

    55 Speedster
    42 Champ Coupe
    55 Speedster/Street Machine
    63 Avanti R2
    64 Convertible R1

    Comment


    • #3
      Oh .. I am going to drill and replace both of the studs in the exhaust
      manifold, but perhaps my question was confusing since it was a bit long
      winded. The farthest back bolt in the HEAD broke off, the one behind
      the steering column. Anyone have any tricks for getting to that one
      with the head on the car??[B)]

      Tom
      '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
      Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
      http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
      I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

      Comment


      • #4
        You know what you have to do... pull the head and drill the bolts out that way.

        As for the manifold, I have about a 50% success rate with getting those studs out; the most reliable way I have found to do it is to grind the end of the stud flat (assuming it is sticking out a little) and then just drill it and retap. If you screw it up just use a Helicoil (with red loctite to hold the Helicoil in the manifold.) Worst case NOS manifolds are available and cheap. Might as well set up an electrolytic deruster (unless you have a blast cabinet) and put some manifold paint on before reassembly. I've heard that someone with skill with a cutting torch can "blow" the stud out of the manifold hole, but the one time I tried that I just ended up melting a piece of the manifold. I guess I need more practice.

        Fel-Pro (I think?) makes the composition style exhaust gaskets for both the head and the downpipe. Some people like the metal gaskets better though. I'd check the manifold flanges with a straightedge; I've found some manifolds are so far out of true that they will blow a gasket almost immediately, only fix is to pull the studs and have them milled, or else just replace with NOS. Need I say that you should use lots of anti-seize on reassembly? SI sells "manifold repair kits" with the downpipe gaskets, studs, brass nuts, and washers - might as well order one of those. And if you can get some good stainless bolts for the manifold to head joint, I am kind of partial to those as well (with lots of anti seize)

        nate

        --
        55 Commander Starlight
        http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
        --
        55 Commander Starlight
        http://members.cox.net/njnagel

        Comment


        • #5
          Forgot to mention, but you were going to do this anyway (right?) chase all the manifold bolt holes in the head with a bottoming tap before reassembly; it's the only way to ensure that you get the specified clamping force when you torque 'em up.

          good luck,

          nate

          --
          55 Commander Starlight
          http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
          --
          55 Commander Starlight
          http://members.cox.net/njnagel

          Comment


          • #6
            quote:Originally posted by sbca96

            OK, I think that my Avanti just doesnt WANT to go to the show, could
            it be shy? I dont know. Never turns red during picture taking.....

            I drove the Avanti to work on Friday, getting off the freeway, it was
            pretty obvious that something had broken. I had a decent exhaust leak
            that wasnt that bad before. Today I jacked up the car, and found that
            the gaskets on BOTH head pipes were GONE, toast, blown out. The pass
            side I had replaced a cracked manifold years ago, so it came apart in
            the normal easy way. The drivers side has never been touched while I
            have had the car, and as you may have guessed, didnt come apart that
            easily. The first problem was one of the lower bolts broke off. Then
            I removed the booster to get to the manifold to head bolts. The front
            two came off easily, but the middle two, and 5th bolt back had rusted
            away to a 14 mm head size. The 6th bolt had become a 1/2 head size.
            I found out that you can get to these from the wheel well easily. It
            turned out, however, that the 6th bolt was broken YEARS ago, & while
            trying to get the bolt loose (the head and broken off part was still
            in the manifold) I broke the bolt AGAIN (yeah, no joke) because the
            shaft was rusted into the manifold hole!! After I got the manifold
            out of the car, I had to use a 3 pound sledge to knock what was left
            of the bolt shaft out of the hole! Rust is amazing. So I have a bolt
            broken off in the farthest back exhaust bolt hole in the head. I dont
            think that I can get in there with a drill, and pulling the head at
            this point is out of the question. I am thinking that with the 5th
            bolt in there, it will be "good enough" to get road worthy again. Is
            there any other exhaust manifold gaskets available besides the steel
            ones? I think that a coated gasket will increase my chances of not
            having a leak anytime soon (with 5 bolts).

            Second question ... any tips on getting that lower broken off bolt out
            of the exhaust manifold? If the guys at my work cant do it, I think I
            will jet up to the Hawk up on the hill, and pull the manifold off it.

            Tom

            Tom,

            I have had good luck using a MIG welder to build up a little blob on the end of the broken bolt. Then take a piece of scrap steel, like 1/8" by 1" band iron, drill a hole in one end, set it over the blob, and MIG weld it. Makes a "handle" to move the bolt with.

            Now the first time you do this, likely the blob will just break off; just lather and repeat. It may take 2, 3, or even 10 attempts, but eventually the combination of torque and heat soak WILL break down the rust bond between the head and the broken bolt. Persistence pays off! I repeat, I have had many more successes than failures using this stunt. Leaves good threads in the cast part, too. The MIG won't stick well to the cast, usually, so if you have a steady hand, you don't need to "mask" the part.

            BTW, most Stude V8s I've torn down used stainless bolts to retain the exhaust manifolds.

            Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands
            Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

            Comment


            • #7
              Unfortunately I dont know how to weld, and my source for welding isnt
              too keen on attempting this for me. I will be doing the drill and tap
              deal on the manifold. The broken bolt in the head will just have to
              stay that way. I cant pull the head right now, besides I think that
              will just open another can of worms that wont get resolved by Friday.

              I know that the rear gasket will most likely blow out in a few hundred
              miles, but that gets me to the show just fine! I ordered the exhaust
              gaskets from SI in the thick composition style. I was just hoping if
              someone had a trick for getting to that rear bolt, I would give it a
              shot before putting things back together. I know its not the "right"
              way to do it, but I dont want to miss the show over this.

              I also ordered the center rubber front bumper cushion.

              Thanks for the help! I am sure someone will benefit also from reading.

              Tom
              '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
              Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
              http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
              I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

              Comment


              • #8
                I haven't looked at a Stude v/8 head recently but on a 390 ford that had your same problem Iwas able to rig a c-clamp to help hold the head and manifold together. the way your luck has been running you probably can't do that on a Stude. Another method I've used with some luck is to clean area and smear muffler-exhaust sealer on manifold-head area. I had one car that lasted over a year before it leaked again. These are kind of make-shift repairs but your running out of time and the sealer just might work for you. If you decide to try the sealer make sure you let it set up overnight before you start the engine.The stuff I used is called Qualco muffler-weld repair and sealer. This may seem shade-tree but if it gets you to the show and back it might be worth a try. BTW, I bought thatsealer at NAPA.

                GARY H 2DR.SEDAN 48 STUDEBAKER CHAMPION NORTHEAST MD.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I also recommend the welding method. Worked for me on an aluminum intake with two tries and also on two square headed oil passage plugs I asked about in another post with only one try. Theres always left handed drill bits but due to rust they most likely would not work,

                  Darryl C. Lewallen Clarkesville, Ga.
                  Darryl C. Lewallen Clarkesville, Ga.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    OK .. the exhaust manifold bolt is out. I must say this is the BEST
                    job I have ever done drilling out a bolt. The threads are virtually
                    undamaged! With these results, if I HAD a good access to the head, I
                    would try it there (I did a bolt in the SAME location on my 93 Camaro
                    Z28, that car has aluminum heads so the stakes are higher!). I just
                    dont think that I can get in there, so it will have to wait. I think
                    that with the 5 bolts, and the thick gaskets I ordered, it will be OK
                    for the show (which I might have failed to mention includes a cruise!).
                    I did such a good job of drilling on center, I got a couple threads
                    of the old bolt out the bottom! I will stop by Napa and pick up some
                    studs to put in, and the shop foreman here suggested BRASS nuts.[:I]

                    Studebaker International said they will ship my parts TODAY, and as I
                    mentioned I paid for "next day".[B)]

                    Tom
                    '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
                    Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
                    http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
                    I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Just for the record, the factory used brass nuts on the manifold studs, as well as on the carb studs. One of those thoughtful little things they did for us that sadly some mechanics don't seem to have appreciated over the years

                      nate

                      --
                      55 Commander Starlight
                      http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
                      --
                      55 Commander Starlight
                      http://members.cox.net/njnagel

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yah .. I seem to remember taking off an original one, and the nut fell
                        apart, leaving usable threads. I will see if I can get some.

                        On the passenger side I replaced the manifold years ago, & I just used
                        standard steel nuts, but I used anti-seize. It came apart fine.

                        Tom
                        '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
                        Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
                        http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
                        I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Brass fine thread nuts aren't that easy to find. I come to realize this a couple years ago when I was determined to have some for an exhaust system. I wound up having a fastener specialty place order me a box of 50. Lifetime supply, I'd guess. Cheaper that way tho.

                          Miscreant at large.

                          1957 Transtar 1/2ton
                          1960 Larkvertible V8
                          1958 Provincial wagon
                          1953 Commander coupe
                          1957 President 2-dr
                          1955 President State
                          1951 Champion Biz cpe
                          1963 Daytona project FS
                          No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            they're still sold as "manifold nuts" under the Pik-A-Nut brand, if you have a FLAPS that carries same.

                            nate

                            --
                            55 Commander Starlight
                            http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
                            --
                            55 Commander Starlight
                            http://members.cox.net/njnagel

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I got some from a Napa here, they are about a 1/2 thick though! I also
                              got some lock washers and regular washers. Chased the threads in the
                              head, after taking off the passenger side manifold, I found that the
                              front bolt is broken off too. I forgot that was broken, "temporarily"
                              put it together with the 5 bolts about 10 years ago!

                              I did such a good job drilling out the broken bolt in the manifold, I
                              wanted to post pictures! Usually when I do this, I am off center and
                              end up ruining half the threads, this came out nice! (BTW its the one
                              on the right) :



                              Here is the bolt threads that came out the backside :







                              Now I just need the thick gaskets from S.I. (should be here tomorrow)
                              & I can put it back together, wash the car, and get it in the garage!

                              Tom
                              Last edited by sbca96; 06-21-2010, 02:20 PM.
                              '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
                              Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
                              http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
                              I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

                              Comment

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