50 Champion wont start

[crazyred]

ok let me run down what ive done first.

-put on new fuel pump
-rebuilt carter we 715s carb
-new plugs and wires
-new rotor, cap, points
-new 6 volt battery
-fuel pump connected to gas can not tank
-tested ignition wires to coil

after doing the above the champion still wont start up. I tested each spark plug wire and there is spark on all. Fuel is pumping through the carb and out into the intake. the car will turn over fine but act as if its not getting spark but thats not the case. it hasnt tried to fire once, so im at a loss at this point. I didnt know if the studebakers had any wierd switches or fuses that i may be missing thats causing this. Usually gas, air, spark equals ignition but so far not the case. The car has been sitting for almost 12 years in a warehouse until i pulled it out. When the car was stored it was driven in there and operated fine. Now it doesnt want to wake up from its sleep.
Anyone have any ideas? [?]

Thx
Crazyred

[JDP]

You basically need 3 things to fire the engine, spark, fuel and compression. If you have a spark that's timed right, compression and fuel, it'll run. I'd bet it's either way out of time, plug wires are out in order, or you have stuck valves from sitting and thus no compression.

Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
64 R2 4 speed Challenger
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
63 Daytona Convert.

[Swifster]

This may seem real basic, but just a thought; did you gap the plugs? Many plugs are pre-gapped for newer car (.060" or larger) and an older car will have a hard time igniting this type of gap. Just something to look at.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Lakeland, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

Michigan Speed - www.michiganspeed.com
Club Hot Rod - www.clubhotrod.com
LS1 Tech - www.ls1tech.com

[Roscomacaw]

Do you know how to use a compression gage?

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

[crazyred]

Thanks for the suggestions you mentioned a couple of things i havent tried. I did make sure the plugs were gapped properly but I haven't check the timing or the compression. I know how to check the timing but i have never checked compression before. I have seen it done but don't know if i could repeat. Are there any particular gages i should buy and are they fairly easy operate?

Thanks again for the advice.


Crazyred

[JDP]

Just pull the plugs one at a time and hold your finger over the hole while someone spins the engine over. If you get a nice "pop" on the compression stroke, that should do for a quick and dirty check.

Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
64 R2 4 speed Challenger
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
63 Daytona Convert.

[dpson]

You noted that you replaced the plug wires, check to make sure that you've got the correct wires to the correct cylinders. Follow the procedures in the service manual to check this (number one cylinder at top dead center, compression cycle, etc.). Having the plug wires off by one hole in the distributor cap will cause the no start problem (ask me how I know).

If that checks out okay, it sounds like either too much or too little gas. With the air cleaner off check to see if the choke plate is closed, if not, the choke needs to be adjusted (don't assume it was set correctly in the rebuild). Again the service manual has the details of how to set the choke and other carb adjustments.

One last resort, pull all the spark plugs and squirt a little gas into each of the cylinders, replace the plugs and turn it over. It should fire and run briefly if the timming/spark is okay. This would point to carb problems. No fire or back fire would point to ignition troubles.

Let us know how you come out.

1960 Lark Convertible

[Tbatson]

I have a 56 Champ. Drove it in the barn in 1983 and when I tried to start it last year I found out there were 2 valves stuck open. It still fired but naturally wouldn't run. I think you may have got those ignition wires in the wrong holes.

[Roscomacaw]

If you use JDP's approach to a compression check, make damned sure the ignition switch is off or at least pull the center wire out of the distributor cap while you do the check. Being zapped by a loose plug wire's no fun at all.[xx(]
You can buy a cheap pressure gage that has a rubber snout on it and you just hold it tightly in a spark plug hole while the engine is spun until the gage won't go any higher. That highest reading is what you want to note. Do the readings with all the plugs out of their holes. AND, blow away any crud around the plug holes BEFORE you take the plugs out. You don't want any dirt or loose parts going down one of the plug holes. Bad Ju-Ju for your engine.[8]
Of course, a nicer gage is OK too. Generally they have a rubber hose with a sparkplug thread fitting on the end so you can screw it into a plug hole to test it's compression. Maybe a mechanic friend has one you can borrow.

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

[crazyred]

well i finally got some time and tried some ideas mentioned to me. thanks for the feedback.

I did the following:
-did finger compression check and has compression
-bought new coil
-added some fuel to each cylinder via spark plug hole
-checked all plugs for fire and they all fire
-gas going to carb
-checked TDC and mark on harmonic balancer and timing looks correct and points are correct also

there is one thing that comes to mind now that i ran across in the past on a chevy...and that is the starter. The starter is dragging and i am wondering if it is not turning the engine fast enough in order to fire the engine.

I had this problem only once before on a chevy truck. After rebuilding the carb and major tune up still didnt fire. the starter dragged on that truck and we replaced it and vrooom it fired right away once installed. Has anyone run into this problem on a stude before?

I would like to get the original starter rebuilt but not sure of a good place that rebuilds studebaker starters. I dont want to buy one i just want to rebuild the original i have on the car now. Does anyone know of or have used a place that rebuilds these. I live in Houston, TX and prefer something locally but will ship it if needed to get the job done right.

Crazyred

[rockne10]

Studebaker didn't make their own starters; usually Autolite in the Champions and Delco in the Commanders. Any reputable, long-established auto electric shop or starter-alternator-generator shop should be able to easily bring the starter up to snuff. They are just electric motors with armatures, brushes, etc.

[JDP]

I'm leaning toward a timing issue. Either you have it 180 degrees out of time, or you have the plug wires hooked up for the wrong rotation of teh rotor.

Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
Studebaker News Group

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.studebaker

64 Daytona HT
64 R2 4 speed Challenger
63 R2 4 speed GT Black
63 R2 4 speed GT White
63 GT Hawk
63 Avanti
62 Daytona HT
53 Coupe

[buddymander]

is your spark bright and strong? Just having a spark isn't enough. Can it jump 1/4"? Stick a 12 volt battery in it and spin the daylights outta it.

[Commander51]

Agree with JDP. A strong spark won't help if it arrives when a valve is open. Recheck the wiring order from the distributor.

51 Commander State Sedan

Kittanning, PA

[crazyred]

so i can verify does anyone know the distributor cap firing order? I know the firing order is 1-5-3-6-2-4 but where is #1 located on the actual cap? I looked in my service manual and it does not reference where the #1 plug is on the cap. I believe it is currently in the correct spot but if anyone has a diagram so i can make sure i would appreciate the help.

Crazyred