Hesitation getting into gear

[Eman]

I think they were in pretty bad shape last time I looked, so I'll probably try and start there. How tough is it to replace them? This won't call for an engine lift or anything will it?

Again, thanks for all the info and suggestions.



1951 Commander Starlight Coupe (aka "Stella")
www.bulletshots.net
www.bulletshots.net/blog

[gordr]

quote:Originally posted by Eman

I think they were in pretty bad shape last time I looked, so I'll probably try and start there. How tough is it to replace them? This won't call for an engine lift or anything will it?

Again, thanks for all the info and suggestions.



1951 Commander Starlight Coupe (aka "Stella")
www.bulletshots.net
www.bulletshots.net/blog

Eman, I don't remember when I last saw a '51 Commander automatic, so I don't know if they use the same tranny mounts as later cars. I changed mounts in my GT Hawk (they are under the bellhousing), and it took me about an hour. I put the car up on jack stands, and then used my floor jack to raise the tranny off the mounts. You can raise it JUST enough to slip the mounts out of there.

Generally, that is the case. Use a floor jack, scissors jack, or bottle jack, along with a block of wood to protect the oil pan/tranny pan, and jack the engine or tranny up as far as is needed to remove the mount in question. Check beforehand to ensure that nothing, like may be the distributor cap, can get crushed. Also watch for things like wires, linkages, and the oil pressure hose. Take your time, and have a helper watch topside, while you jacking underneath. BTW, it is a good idea to "crack" the fasteners on the mounts before jacking up the engine/tranny, to avoid having to really heave on it when it's somewhat precariously supported.

Generally speaking, though, changing mounts (insulators in the parts book) is a pretty easy job. Dirty, though[}]

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

[Eman]

Another one of my questions was going to be if I needed to loosen anything else beforehand. Also, if this would increase my chances of damaging or loosening something I didn't want loosened.

And so Gord, you jacked it up right under the tranny pan? (That kinda scares me!)



1951 Commander Starlight Coupe (aka "Stella")
www.bulletshots.net
www.bulletshots.net/blog

[Roscomacaw]

You wanna use a piece of wood that's as long as the tranny pan is wide. That way you're not exerting all the pressure in the middle of the pan and possibly bending it inwards. Most real tranny jacks have four upturned fingers that you adjust to where they only exert pressure on the perimeter (or "lip") of the pan, but if you're CAREFUL it should be OK. Just watch that the tranny doesn't hang or wedge against something to where you're trying to FORCE it to go when it can't.[xx(]


Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

[Hawk5619]

Good luck with that Stella auto trans. My 50 champ is a standard shift and I was talking to a old time studie guy the other day and told him that I wish mine had the the auto. He was quick to tell me that the automatic was a pain back in those early years.
Sounds to me that the fluid level and linkage is the key to get that thing right.
Good luck Stella!

Hawk
50 Champion
60 Lark
63 Hawk

[Roscomacaw]

That early Stude automatic was a great transmission. Fact is, it was too good - that's why they got away from it after 1955 ('56 in trucks and some Champions, Gary). The Ford-o-Matic had less features than the Studebaker automatic and therefor was considerably cheaper per unit. Consequently, Studebaker ended up with the Ford-o-matic with some minor adaptations to accomodate Studebaker's specifications (mainly, shift pattern - which is different from the Ford-o-matic's)
The earlier Stude auto tranny has a lock-up torque convertor (like some modern automatics crow about). It also was "smarter" than some of today's trannies. For instance, you could put the shift lever in "R" while you were cruising along at 60 or 70 and the tranny knew better than to obey your silly move. [8]
It's only problem nowdays is a lack of tranny mechanics that know anything about it.[V]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

[starlightchamp]

A friend with a 50 Commander Starlight and auto transmission told me he had mucho trouble finding rebuild parts until he discovered Borg-Warner who supplied the tranny also sold to Jaguar and they used the design for umpty years. He was able to get the parts from Jaguar dealer. Guess it was pretty good !
BTW I have a 1950 Chilton's Motor Age magazine that has an article on "servicing Studebaker's Automatic Transmissions and a 1950 Floyd Cramer book that has info on servicing the 1950 auto trannies. If anyone needs same, I would copy the articles.

Starlightchamp
1950 Champion Starlight
1963 Hawk GT

[Eman]

Well, I got the mounts loose, but can't get them out. I raised the tranny as high as I could, but there still needs to be at least 1/4" or so for the bolt (that is inside the mount) to clear the hole it's coming out of. Is there a knack to taking it out?



1951 Commander Starlight Coupe (aka "Stella")
www.bulletshots.net
www.bulletshots.net/blog

[studegary]

quote:Originally posted by starlightchamp

A friend with a 50 Commander Starlight and auto transmission told me he had mucho trouble finding rebuild parts until he discovered Borg-Warner who supplied the tranny also sold to Jaguar and they used the design for umpty years. He was able to get the parts from Jaguar dealer. Guess it was pretty good !

Maybe things have changed, but I can recall repairing Jaguar transmissions with Studebaker parts because the Studebaker parts were easier to get and a lot cheaper.

[CHAMP]

EMAN, DID YOU GET MY E/MAIL? YOU MIGHT HAVE TO LOOSEN OR REMOVE CROSS MEMBER. I! NOT 100% SURE ABUOT THIS, PERHAPS SOMEONE ELSE ON FORUM CAN GIVE MORE INFO. CHAMP

[Eman]

I got it. Thanks! Mr. Biggs also mentioned lowering the jack a bit so I can move the tranny a little from side to side to get the mounts out. I think both will help. I believe I had it jacked up too high anyway... hopefully nothing was damaged.

Wonder if it would be better to loosen the tranny from the crosmember or loosen the crossmember from the sides of the frame?

quote:Originally posted by CHAMP

EMAN, DID YOU GET MY E/MAIL? YOU MIGHT HAVE TO LOOSEN OR REMOVE CROSS MEMBER. I! NOT 100% SURE ABUOT THIS, PERHAPS SOMEONE ELSE ON FORUM CAN GIVE MORE INFO. CHAMP

1951 Commander Starlight Coupe (aka "Stella")
www.bulletshots.net
www.bulletshots.net/blog

[CHAMP]

YOU MIGHT HAVE TO LOOSEN BOTH. CHAMP[8D]

[Eman]

Well, I got the driver's side rear motor mount out and the new one in... but can't get the two holes lined up properly to screw them back in. And I haven't attempted to take the passenger side mount out again yet.

These mounts I got from Stephen Allen's must be more universal than specifically for my year. The bolts coming out of each one are different lengths as well as one is fine threaded and the other is coarse. I even had to chop off 1/4" from the shorter one to make it the same length as the one I took off! (And so I could get it back in.)

Anyway, things are slow going... I'm still a little sick and this weekend was my little girl's second birthday party. Maybe this week I can attack the mounts again. It's just something that's not supposed to be too difficult turns into a major project again with little things not going right. And I still don't even know if this is the cause of my Reverse problem.[B)]



1951 Commander Starlight Coupe (aka "Stella")
www.bulletshots.net
www.bulletshots.net/blog

[Roscomacaw]

There's a reason that one stud's longer than the other. The left-hand mount (at least on 53 and later - I'm honestly not sure about 51 & 52 cars) have a thick spacer between the mount and the cross-member. This offsets the engine-tranny a bit for necessary clearance. Right-hand drive cars use the spacer on the other side. Anyway's, that longer stud's for the side that gets the spacer.
Since all Studes use that same mount type (with the DG tranny), it's a one-size-fits-all situation. Even tho, as I said, I'm not sure about the 51-52 car's using the spacer. Matters not since the longer or shorter stud would work either way on a car that didn't have a spacer. BTW, did you encounter such a spacer when you took these mounts loose?[:I] It just looks like a 1/2" thick washer.
Out of curiousity, take the one new mount and compare it's hole spacing against the old one you took out. Are they the same? Should be. And there's no difference in hole spacing - right vs. left.[^]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

[N8N]

the only way I was able to replace the trans. mounts on my '55 was to loosen the front mounts as well, otherwise I couldn't jack the bellhousing up high enough. At least in '55 the mounts are side specific, the holes where they bolt to the bellhousing are a little offset to one side of the metal.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel