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Aluminum Head Tech

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  • Aluminum Head Tech

    As some of you know Ted Harbit was trying to get some commitments for new Stude Aluminum heads. Unfortunately it looks like it probably won't happen due to lack of interest. However, in this months Car Craft there is a nice article about some new Pontiac aluminum heads (not the Edelbrock ones but some new independent ones from KRE). It gives a good comparison to the later Pontiac cast iron jobs from the early 70's (which really aren't that much different than those from the 60's) and these new design heads. Not only a weight saver but bumps in HP and Torque. Would be nice to see this technology come to the Stude crowd!

    Dan White
    64 R1 GT
    64 R2 GT

  • #2
    Yep, you're absolutly right. A lot of folks talk a good story...but I guess when it comes to laying down 2000+ duckuts.....I'd guess many wives lay down the law!
    Many may also think that almost "twice" as much money for a Stude "aftermarket" (read that aluminum) head, thAn for a brand X aftermarket head is a ripoff. For a low, quanity sale, it's really not THAT bad.

    There's a lot that can be gained with a little better design work in the Stude head, in all aspects, intake port, exhaust port and combustion chamber. WHAT.....who said weight? The chamber is pretty close to workable, but still needs some work.

    BUT, there's also the fact that without a new cam design to go with a new head, the gains will be overall....minimal. I believe (hope) that's being worked on as we speak though.

    I do have kind of a hard time believing that in this whole country...that there's not 25 people that will belly-up and get this started. I think "somehow" the word needs to be shouted a little louder. Just don't quite know how.

    Comment


    • #3
      Sigh...
      People in this crowd won't even spend a grand for big valve heads without having kittens about it...imagine 3 (or 4 ) grand for a repop pair of heads and an intake manifold. Shoot, some won't spend that for a whole Studebaker...
      How about someone spending some good bucks to have a cast iron Stude head ported for max flow numbers and then having the head shop put all the port numbers into his 4 axis cnc mill and then re-do Stude heads on a production basis. I just went to the PRI show and talked to at leat 4 companies that do just this type of work. Give the a prepped head and they can scan all the dimensions and then just plug in a head and mill it to those spec numbers. Should cost less than the repop heads..

      Or, here's an idea along Ted's theme....
      Put an ad in TW (not every Stude guy is 'puter savvy) and offer the heads at whatever price Ted was working on... But...
      For the agreement to buy a pair of repop heads, it also tosses your order into a raffle, and one lucky guy will get his heads for free. Just build the upfront costs for the first pair of heads into the group cost.....
      Some people will spend a boatload of money for a chance to win a prize (just look at the lottery)
      Jeff[8D]




      quote:Originally posted by Mike Van Veghten

      Yep, you're absolutly right. A lot of folks talk a good story...but I guess when it comes to laying down 2000+ duckuts.....I'd guess many wives lay down the law!
      Many may also think that almost "twice" as much money for a Stude "aftermarket" (read that aluminum) head, thAn for a brand X aftermarket head is a ripoff. For a low, quanity sale, it's really not THAT bad.

      There's a lot that can be gained with a little better design work in the Stude head, in all aspects, intake port, exhaust port and combustion chamber. WHAT.....who said weight? The chamber is pretty close to workable, but still needs some work.

      BUT, there's also the fact that without a new cam design to go with a new head, the gains will be overall....minimal. I believe (hope) that's being worked on as we speak though.

      I do have kind of a hard time believing that in this whole country...that there's not 25 people that will belly-up and get this started. I think "somehow" the word needs to be shouted a little louder. Just don't quite know how.

      DEEPNHOCK at Cox.net
      '37 Coupe Express
      '37 Coupe Express Trailer
      '61 Hawk

      http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock
      HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

      Jeff


      Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



      Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

      Comment


      • #4
        purposed aluminum Heads 2,000.00
        Intake 425.00

        53commander HDTP
        53 Champion HDTP
        61 Cursed Purple Hawk
        64 Champ long bed V8
        64 GT
        64 Champ long bed V8
        55/53 Studebaker President S/R
        53 Hudson Super Wasp Coupe

        Comment


        • #5
          So Jeff.... Are you saying you're gonna proceed with the Re-Do, cast iron head idea???[]

          What if I had Nemish do a set of heads to the max and then used the resultant product to produce clones? Did your inquiries produce any figures to do such cloning???[:I]

          Miscreant at large.

          1957 Transtar 1/2ton
          1960 Larkvertible V8
          1958 Provincial wagon
          1953 Commander coupe
          1957 President 2-dr
          1955 President State
          1951 Champion Biz cpe
          1963 Daytona project FS
          No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

          Comment


          • #6
            What the CNC guys (and the digital reading machine guys) said was that the can take any head design and 'map' the ports using their machine. Then they take this digital info and plug it into a CNC multi-axis milling machine. Where you start (stock) and where you end up is what they do.
            I didn't get any quotes, but it seems a fairly straightforward way to be able to duplicate a porting job. This is how Edelbrock (and others) have been able to get the cost per unit down. No reason the Stude crowd couldn't do this as well...
            Jeff[8D]
            quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

            So Jeff.... Are you saying you're gonna proceed with the Re-Do, cast iron head idea???[]

            What if I had Nemish do a set of heads to the max and then used the resultant product to produce clones? Did your inquiries produce any figures to do such cloning???[:I]

            Miscreant at large.

            1957 Transtar 1/2ton
            1960 Larkvertible V8
            1958 Provincial wagon
            1953 Commander coupe
            1957 President 2-dr
            1955 President State
            1951 Champion Biz cpe
            1963 Daytona project FS
            DEEPNHOCK at Cox.net
            '37 Coupe Express
            '37 Coupe Express Trailer
            '61 Hawk

            http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock
            HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

            Jeff


            Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



            Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

            Comment


            • #7
              The biggest problem with Stude heads is the 4 into 3 exhaust. This is the elephant sitting in the living room that no one mentions. You want flow? Redesign that aspect of the Stude head. It has a lot going for it in other aspects. Especially to put a blower of some sort, and I would guess, Nitrous. What a motor with a blower and the gas....Tube headers and a good ignition. Who cares about small displacement. Or sleeve the engine to a 4" bore, and still put modern aluminum heads, headers,ignition,nitrous. It would beat any engine out there. Wish I had a barrel of $$$$

              KM

              Kelly J. Marion

              Comment


              • #8
                New cylinder head castings comes up often on the
                old car automotive forums. I don't think a group
                project would succeed. One man, or maybe two or
                three men must attempt the project by themselves,
                funding the effort entirely from their own
                goodwill, not knowing whether they would recoup
                the costs. The costs might run $20,000 or $30,000,
                or much more. Too many cooks in the kitchen
                does not work. Accepting funding from many small
                contributors usually leaves folks feeling like
                they've been burned, or that their ideas were
                spurned.

                A head project on www.fordsix.com has a goal
                of production ready head prototypes in May 2006.
                This appears to be primarily a one man effort.
                Watch how they project goes, then pick the guy's
                brains. The new technology ought to cut costs,
                but lack of experience would cause the effort
                to be a sure failure. The Ford project claims
                that $1,000 to $1,500 is a reasonable goal
                for an inline six head. If so, a V8 would likely
                be more costly. Is it worth it? Only for a
                few who are going racing.

                I'd just as soon have a state of the art iron
                head, but the alloy is easier to work with.
                Because of technical progress these grassroots
                casting projects are becoming more common.




                Comment


                • #9
                  As has been stated on the "Racing" Forum (which seems to have gone belly-up, at least for the moment), not only are many (most?) Studebaker people CHEAP (used to all those surplus parts for decades while everyone else was "growing up"), but no two people who might actually spring for the heads can seem to agree on specs. Some want R-3 knockoffs (heaven forbid), some want varying degrees of modernization.

                  It just won't happen.

                  Sorry.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I dunno about "cheap," but honestly a motor buildup is not in the budget for me right now. Were this to come up in a year or two things might be different, but now I find myself spending $$$ on mundane stuff like gaskets, weatherstrip, alternator rebuild kits, etc... just not quite to the point where thinking about heads makes sense yet.

                    I still am interested in the intakes however, as that is a little more attainable for me and I'd like to put my engine on some kind of diet...

                    nate

                    --
                    55 Commander Starlight
                    62 Daytona hardtop
                    http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
                    --
                    55 Commander Starlight
                    http://members.cox.net/njnagel

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      It would have to be a one man project, democracy has never
                      has never worked for good designs, nearly all the good ideas
                      have one man's name on them. People learn to live with
                      whatever compromises are made, can't make everyone happy.

                      For low cost a head should be iron. The head gaskets that
                      work with alloy heads can cost a lot of money. A head for
                      the Studebaker V8 would likely not be successful as
                      most owners like their old cars "as is". The V8 has the
                      3 port exhaust, makes it hard to work with. A new Ford
                      flathead eight casting is available, it still has the
                      3 port exhaust in the block, probably only a few dozen
                      of those will be sold each year due to the costs.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Very well said..
                        But in today's aftermarket world, aluminum is actually easier, and less expensive than cast iron.
                        As far as the port layout.. I am with you...
                        I'd copy the latest high flow port design and work it into the Stude bore and head bolt constraints and the heck with the rest...
                        Intakes, exhausts, and valvetrain are easy after the head work is done...
                        Jeff[8D]



                        quote:Originally posted by Tim Keith

                        It would have to be a one man project, democracy has never
                        has never worked for good designs, nearly all the good ideas
                        have one man's name on them. People learn to live with
                        whatever compromises are made, can't make everyone happy.

                        For low cost a head should be iron. The head gaskets that
                        work with alloy heads can cost a lot of money. A head for
                        the Studebaker V8 would likely not be successful as
                        most owners like their old cars "as is". The V8 has the
                        3 port exhaust, makes it hard to work with. A new Ford
                        flathead eight casting is available, it still has the
                        3 port exhaust in the block, probably only a few dozen
                        of those will be sold each year due to the costs.
                        DEEPNHOCK at Cox.net
                        '37 Coupe Express
                        '37 Coupe Express Trailer
                        '61 Hawk

                        http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock
                        HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

                        Jeff


                        Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



                        Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

                        Comment

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