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small block chevies in a 50 champ

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  • small block chevies in a 50 champ

    does any one out there have any pointers for installing a small block chevy in a 50 champ

    and maybe you can answer a few questions

    do you have to move or replace the stock steering box
    if no will headers clear the stock box (what brand and where did you get them)

    will a stock radiator with a large elect fan cool a small block chevy
    if no what do you recommend

    that covers the only two major questions i have

    what about you guys have you run into any other probs with this conversion

  • #2
    You chose a topic that will open up a can of worms. The only problem I can think of with installing a chevy into your Stude is the Stude V8 will give you better results. Just my opinion and if you want to put the chevy in then its your choice.

    -Home of John Studebaker-
    http://community.webshots.com/user/Stude4x4

    Comment


    • #3
      the only thing i see wrong with the stude v8 vs chevy is that
      down here in tx

      i only know where there i 1 stude v8 its in a 53 and the car has no hood and no intake and in the weather

      so id bet my milk and cookies that it is way past salvageable


      and ive got 4 complete chevy small blocks in my garage as we speak

      Comment


      • #4
        I have never done this swap, however I do know (and have seen) one done like that. The major problem was the clearance for the stock steering. This was a 50 starlight coupe, the front motor mounts were custom fabbed instead of the common Hurst front mount, so the engine sits up closer to the radiator. Yes, he used the stock radiator with an electric fan for cooling, and it fit OK. The problem is not in the front, but at the firewall. You may have to cut out the firewall to fit the engine in. The best fit I have seen in the shorter 50 doghouse is the 4.3L V6, but you may not have any of those laying around. Just as an aside, the Stude V8 doesn't fit in the 50 doghouse either, and is longer than the SBC V8, and also gives steering clearance problems. You do have the option in the 1950 doghouse of mounting the engine higher than you can in the 53/54 coupes, so exhaust is less of a problem, and you should have no clearance problems with the exhaust.

        Comment


        • #5
          On the 50, headers clearing the stock steering box is not the problem, the problem is clearance for the reach rod to the kingpin pivot. The reach rod will have to run right through the oil pan, or you will have to come up with an oil pan that clears the king pin bell crank lever. It can be done, it is not easy.

          Comment


          • #6
            Yes, it will fit in there with no major interference.
            But....
            You will need to build a new 4 core radiator....period.
            You will need to fabricate new engine mounts.
            You will need to make a new rear crossmember.
            You will need to custom build a new exhaust system.
            Yow will need to fabricate a new shift linkage.
            You will need to fabricate a new throttle linkage.
            You will need to fabricate a new trans shift kickdown linkage.
            You will need to shorten and balance your driveshaft.
            You will need to change the yoke on your driveshaft to the new trans.
            You will need to update the wiring to 12 volts.
            You will need to update the brakes.
            You will need to put in new front springs (if going from a 6 to an 8)
            You will need to save up money for the new rear end you will need in a few thousand miles.
            You will need to save up for the flak jacket you'll need from the Stude engine in a Stude crowd.
            Other than the normal pita swap stuff...it is a fairly normal swap.
            Jeff[8D]





            quote:Originally posted by gotti210

            does any one out there have any pointers for installing a small block chevy in a 50 champ

            and maybe you can answer a few questions

            do you have to move or replace the stock steering box
            if no will headers clear the stock box (what brand and where did you get them)

            will a stock radiator with a large elect fan cool a small block chevy
            if no what do you recommend

            that covers the only two major questions i have

            what about you guys have you run into any other probs with this conversion
            DEEPNHOCK at Cox.net
            '37 Coupe Express
            '37 Coupe Express Trailer
            '61 Hawk

            http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock
            HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

            Jeff


            Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



            Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

            Comment


            • #7
              And what no one has offered here is that it's gona be just as tough to drop a Stude V8 in there too! That said, I would readily understand wanting to upgrade to SOMEthing more powerful.[:0][][}]
              If this were a '51, I'd have different personal preferances for a transplant since '51 WAS the first year of a Stude V8 and consequently, one such engine would feel right at home there. [8D]

              I've thought for a long time that for real tractability, a V6 would be a better choice for alternate power in these pre-51 Studes. You can get good service out of many V6s now and certainly hang all the amenities on them with ease. But beyond that, it looks to me (not like I've tried it, mind you) like it'd be much easier to shoehorn one into a 50 (or earlier) Stude.
              Of course, other considerations will be brakes, rear axle, steering, etc., etc..

              Some years ago (are y'all sittin' down for this???[}]) I had access to several Subaru flat 6 engines that were custom-prepared for racing. I can't remember now exactly but they had phenomenal
              HP ratings![:0] And what appealed to me about it was that it would be something TRULY "custom" as opposed to the tired, old, JC Whitney-bedecked SBC.
              Imagine that![] A "custom" that sported something other than a cookie-cutter approach to repowering!

              Of course, I surrender all this silliness to gotti here - with his garage-ful of SBCs to deal with. And I submit that he yank the 6 and swing an SBC in there on a hoist and get an honest feel for what he's gonna be up against.
              Like any project of this nature, it's all real easy save for the doin'.

              Miscreant at large.

              1957 Transtar 1/2ton
              1960 Larkvertible V8
              1958 Provincial wagon
              1953 Commander coupe
              1957 President 2-dr
              1955 President State
              1951 Champion Biz cpe
              1963 Daytona project FS
              No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

              Comment


              • #8
                quote:Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK

                Yes, it will fit in there with no major interference.
                But....
                You will need to build a new 4 core radiator....period.
                You will need to fabricate new engine mounts.
                You will need to make a new rear crossmember.
                You will need to custom build a new exhaust system.
                Yow will need to fabricate a new shift linkage.
                You will need to fabricate a new throttle linkage.
                You will need to fabricate a new trans shift kickdown linkage.
                You will need to shorten and balance your driveshaft.
                You will need to change the yoke on your driveshaft to the new trans.
                You will need to update the wiring to 12 volts.
                You will need to update the brakes.
                You will need to put in new front springs (if going from a 6 to an 8)
                You will need to save up money for the new rear end you will need in a few thousand miles.
                You will need to save up for the flak jacket you'll need from the Stude engine in a Stude crowd.
                Other than the normal pita swap stuff...it is a fairly normal swap.
                Jeff[8D]
                Everything Jeff has listed would be true. With any project, planning is very important. You need to decide how far you want to go with this. Many frame and hot rod shops sell Mustang II kits that will work with the Stude frame, change the steering to rack & pinion and will upgrade your front brakes at the same time.

                Personally, I'd also look at using the 4.3L V-6 or a 3.8L (with supercharger ). The V-6's are reliable, make good power and are rather compact. They will also use just about any GM transmission you'd want to use. The 4.3L has the advantage of using the same front accessory drives and brackets that are used on the SBC.

                A 8.8" rear end from a Ranger or Mustang should fit reasonably well and they are strong enough for all but high horse applications. Many of the items listed by Jeff are available from various sources and can be engineered to fit.

                As a final note, when you change one item on a car, it effects something else, and when you make THAT change, it will effect other things, and it goes on and on. The project pretty much takes on a life of it's own. This isn't said to scare you off your project, but more to give you a realistic idea of what you'll face.

                ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                Tom - Sterling Heights, MI

                Ancient Chinese Proverb: "Injection is nice, but I'd rather be blown!"

                1964 Studebaker Daytona - Laguna Blue, Original 4-Spd. Car, Power Steering, Disc Brakes, Bucket Seats, Tinted Glass, Climatizer Ventilation System, AM Radio (136,989 Miles)
                Tom - Bradenton, FL

                1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2514.10)
                1964 Studebaker Commander - 170 1V, 3-Speed w/OD

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hey Mr. Biggs nothing wrong with a Subbie flat 6! I have an SVX and it runs great. Also, why not go for a WRX-STi motor while you are at it. Flat four turbo charged and intercooled. One of my friends just got one out of a slightly burned '05 WRX, 300hp out of 2.5 liters (152.5 ci)!

                  Dan White
                  64 R1 GT
                  64 R2 GT
                  Dan White
                  64 R1 GT
                  64 R2 GT
                  58 C Cab
                  57 Broadmoor (Marvin)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    well jeff some of the stuff on that list ive already nailed

                    i had a freebie set of weld draglites that were (2) 14x6s & (2) 15x8.5 with reverse backspacing

                    and you cant look a gift horse in the face
                    well the stock stude rearend was to wide for these rims alone without evan having any tires on them so i did my home work and installed a late model s-10 rearend which left me with 1/2" clearence with the tires i chose

                    a s-10 rear will hold th horsepower cause we put one in a t-bucket about 3 yrs ago that had a bbc in it and have had no problems


                    now on brakes (back to the freebie wheels) i needed something with 4 1/2" bolt circle so i upgraded to the 11" 53 stude brakes and have plans of doing another upgrade to disc somewhere down the line

                    exhaust not a problem im a authorized flowmaster dealer and have the best prices in the us

                    radiator has already been upgraded
                    i had a friend that had a custom radiator built for a blown & nitroed 426 hemi that he had plans of putting in a henry j but suddenly all the plans changed and i purchased that particulair radiator from him

                    also already did a twelve volt conversion on the existing stude 6 ( chrome one wire 100 amp gm alt )

                    and im a machinest by trade so the kustom fab of crossmember - throotle linkage - motor mounts and so on not a problem either

                    my biggest concern is clearence of that darn steering box
                    cause i really dont wanna have to move it or fab up another one nor do i really wanna change to a mustard front end cuase i already have alot of dough in this stude frontend ( new bushings shocks tyrod ends and 53 brakes from the spindle out)

                    one question tho whats a flak jacket ( something to protect me from all the flack ill get from stude peeps)

                    if so not a problem cause down here in sa tx there isnt very many stude peep that go to the kinda shows we go to (StreetRods NSRA GoodGuys and so on)

                    any other probs you guys out there may foresee with this particulair swap

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      MAYBE a Buick/Olds all aluminum 215 C.I V8 will fit. This engine was sold to Rover and was used up till a few years ago. Parts are plentiful, the engine is reliable and you can get some decent HP out of them. Not sure on the dimensions but they are smaller than a 350 Chevy and lighter than a lot of 4 cylinder engines! Many guys are putting them into MG's and Triumphs and they have small engine bays.. Gee, now that I think of it, mabye I should consider this as a replacement for the 6 in my Lark!
                      Check out www.aluminumv8.com
                      Todd


                      63 Lark 2dr Sedan

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        gotti, I'm telling you you won't have any problem, or not much of a problem, with the steering box. The 1950 frame mounts the engine higher and farther forward than the later larks and hawks, The steering problem you are going to be facing is at the other end of the steering mechanism - the center pinion bell crank for the kingpin style steering. The reach rod and the center bell crank will interfer with the engine oil pan. There are a few solutions, one of which is to use the 1 1/2 inch shorter Avanti quick steering arm, another is to heat the stock arm and bend it down out of the way, another is to raise the engine, another is to get an oil pan that won't interfer. I'm not that familiar with SBC oil pans, but I've heard that there is an oil pan used in the mid 60's vans that has the sump farther back.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Gotti, this is YOUR car right?? Put any motor in you want!! I've got a Chevy v-8 in my 62 Lark.. Let the purists say what they want..I live in South Bend, you bet I could have found a ton of Stude v-8's..My car my choice..Chevy engine..Heres another one for the purists...My Great Grandfather, Grandfather, and yes Father all worked there...The only one still alive is my Father..he gives me a hand with the car now and then..and could not care less about the engine,the car itself is still a Studebaker...My god if one of the diehards had a heart transplant..you'd better throw him out of the club...he just wouldn't be himself anymore... (a reply to the flak comments..) Good luck..all in all the project sounds like you have enough free parts to make a good go of it!!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Jeff...

                            Wouldn't a four "core" radiator be really, really thick?

                            We know you ment, a single core with four (copper) row's of tubes or two rows of tubes with an aluminum cored radiator.

                            Gotti210 -

                            Don't let'em scare ya. With a little time, some custom building abilities or good friend with same...it's not that big a deal. If that's what you want....do it. I've got three Studes, two are Stude powered, and one I'm proud to say is CHEVY powered.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Sounds like you have a handle on the deal...
                              Have fun with it!
                              Jeff[8D]



                              quote:Originally posted by gotti210

                              well jeff some of the stuff on that list ive already nailed

                              i had a freebie set of weld draglites that were (2) 14x6s & (2) 15x8.5 with reverse backspacing

                              and you cant look a gift horse in the face
                              well the stock stude rearend was to wide for these rims alone without evan having any tires on them so i did my home work and installed a late model s-10 rearend which left me with 1/2" clearence with the tires i chose

                              a s-10 rear will hold th horsepower cause we put one in a t-bucket about 3 yrs ago that had a bbc in it and have had no problems


                              now on brakes (back to the freebie wheels) i needed something with 4 1/2" bolt circle so i upgraded to the 11" 53 stude brakes and have plans of doing another upgrade to disc somewhere down the line

                              exhaust not a problem im a authorized flowmaster dealer and have the best prices in the us

                              radiator has already been upgraded
                              i had a friend that had a custom radiator built for a blown & nitroed 426 hemi that he had plans of putting in a henry j but suddenly all the plans changed and i purchased that particulair radiator from him

                              also already did a twelve volt conversion on the existing stude 6 ( chrome one wire 100 amp gm alt )

                              and im a machinest by trade so the kustom fab of crossmember - throotle linkage - motor mounts and so on not a problem either

                              my biggest concern is clearence of that darn steering box
                              cause i really dont wanna have to move it or fab up another one nor do i really wanna change to a mustard front end cuase i already have alot of dough in this stude frontend ( new bushings shocks tyrod ends and 53 brakes from the spindle out)

                              one question tho whats a flak jacket ( something to protect me from all the flack ill get from stude peeps)

                              if so not a problem cause down here in sa tx there isnt very many stude peep that go to the kinda shows we go to (StreetRods NSRA GoodGuys and so on)

                              any other probs you guys out there may foresee with this particulair swap
                              DEEPNHOCK at Cox.net
                              '37 Coupe Express
                              '37 Coupe Express Trailer
                              '61 Hawk

                              http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock
                              HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

                              Jeff


                              Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



                              Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

                              Comment

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