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Smoking Hawk

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  • Smoking Hawk

    My 289v8 Hawk developed a bad case of smoking exhaust.
    It seems to have started after I converted the stock 4 bbl carb
    to a performer series 1403 (500cfm) 4 bbl carb; I have
    done everything the Edelbrock tech guys said to do;;
    i.e. installed a fuel pressure regulator, adjusted the
    floats, leaned out the carb. No change. Now I'm starting to think that maybe it's an unrelated problem. the smoke is white-gray, and it gets progessively worse as the engine warms up. The plugs
    are black(carbon coated) after running the motor.
    Bad valve guides? rings? Or does the carb need further
    work? Does anyone have an idea of what is going on?

    thanks,


  • #2
    White-gray smoke sure ain't from a mal-jetted carb. Could be oil or antifreese by that color description. Does the smoke disperse by drifting well away or does some of it seem to evaporate soon after exiting the tailpipe? A coolant leak will have "smoke" that evaporates to some degree as it's partly steam. An oil leak will produce smoke that doesn't really evaporate but just drifts away to disperse.
    Changing the carb alone should not cause either of these possibilities. Are you sure this started right after changine to the Edelbrock?[B)]
    Does the car have dual exhausts? If so, is only one side smoking?

    Miscreant at large.

    1957 Transtar 1/2ton
    1960 Larkvertible V8
    1958 Provincial wagon
    1953 Commander coupe
    1957 President 2-dr
    1955 President State
    1951 Champion Biz cpe
    1963 Daytona project FS
    No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

    Comment


    • #3
      the car has dual exhaust and both pipes smoke; upon
      starting the car cold, the smoke is light but does not appear to be
      evaporating... although I do get a lot of moisture from the
      pipes... as the motor warms up the smoke increases, and
      I open the throttle it really blows! the plugs do not show
      oil but they are black... ??? the car smoked very little before
      changing the carb... so I assumed a connection, especially since
      it was really loading up when I changed the carb.. motor surging rough running, smnoking etc. After changing to a smaller
      carb (500 cfm, the smallest one I could find), and installing
      the fuel regulator, it runs much better but still smokes. maybe just
      a coincidence? I should also mention that the car is not
      driven since I am in the process of restoring the body.
      I just start it weekly and let it run for awhile.

      any ideas? Thanks much

      Comment


      • #4
        Hmmm...The 500cfm should be a great carb for your setup.

        But how well does the car run with the new carb?
        You say you leaned the carb out.
        How? Changed the jets and metering rods?
        What number jet and rod came with your carb, and what number rod and jet did you switch to?
        How does the exhaust smell?
        Does the exhast smell gag you, or is it sweet smelling?
        Does the smoke burn your eyeballs?
        What year is your car?
        Do you have a PCV valve?
        Hang in there... You'll get it sorted out
        Jeff[8D]





        quote:Originally posted by valleyguy

        the car has dual exhaust and both pipes smoke; upon
        starting the car cold, the smoke is light but does not appear to be
        evaporating... although I do get a lot of moisture from the
        pipes... as the motor warms up the smoke increases, and
        I open the throttle it really blows! the plugs do not show
        oil but they are black... ??? the car smoked very little before
        changing the carb... so I assumed a connection, especially since
        it was really loading up when I changed the carb.. motor surging rough running, smnoking etc. After changing to a smaller
        carb (500 cfm, the smallest one I could find), and installing
        the fuel regulator, it runs much better but still smokes. maybe just
        a coincidence? I should also mention that the car is not
        driven since I am in the process of restoring the body.
        I just start it weekly and let it run for awhile.

        any ideas? Thanks much
        DEEPNHOCK at Cox.net
        '37 Coupe Express
        '37 Coupe Express Trailer
        '61 Hawk

        http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock
        HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

        Jeff


        Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



        Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

        Comment


        • #5
          Ok, here is what I have done to the carb; per the factory
          manual I set the float height (7/16") then the float drop (15/16" - 1"); nothing else. the factory specs are as follows:
          main jet primary-.086", main jet secondary- .095" metering rod (primary only) .065x052", step-up spring (5") needle and seat-
          .0935". The fuel pressure regulator is set at 5.5 psi.
          The motor runs ok, expect when the plugs foul and then it misses;
          I have cleaned the plus so many times I could probably do it
          blindlfolded.... the smoke smells more acrid than sweet. again,
          the smoke gets pregressively worse as the motor warms. There is no PCV valve that I can find. The oil in the crankcase seems fine (although a little low, presumably from burning??), There does not
          appear to by any leaks from the radiator or motor. ?? I'm stumped.
          If it's not the carb dumping excess fuel into the combustion chamber
          than obviously I have a rebuild of some
          type to consider.... Thanks for any help you can provide.

          Comment


          • #6
            That fuel pressures too high for my liking. 4 ought to be max or you DO run the risk of forcing gas past the needle/seat of the carb.
            Still - whiteish smoke's not from too much gas. Too rich, and you get black smoke.
            Does this thing have power brakes? I've had leaking boosters (leaking internally) that feed brake fluid up thru the vacuum hose, to the manifold.
            Are the plugs uniformly black or is it just certain ones?
            Does the coolant look clean or murky?[?][?][?]

            Miscreant at large.

            1957 Transtar 1/2ton
            1960 Larkvertible V8
            1958 Provincial wagon
            1953 Commander coupe
            1957 President 2-dr
            1955 President State
            1951 Champion Biz cpe
            1963 Daytona project FS
            No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

            Comment


            • #7
              My car (1958 hawk, 289) has no power brakes nor power steering.
              auto tranny.
              The plugs are all uniformly black and the the coolant appears clear.
              the only thing I have done to the motor since I got the car is a tuneup (plugs, etc.), new aftermarket oil filler tube cap,
              the new carb and edelbrock air filter. After looking at the
              exhaust smoke again, it is not really white, more gray/black.
              I tried different settings on the fuel pressure regulator, including
              4 psi you suggested, with no change. This regulator is a cheap job from "Mr. gasket". I would spring for a more expensive regulator if
              I was reasonably sure that is the problem. Of course if I was any kind of mechanic, I would have had this solved by now....
              Thanks for your help.

              Comment


              • #8
                As you haven't driven a lot, the cooling system MIGHT have a leak.If it's a small leak, you'd need to drive a bit before you could see a changed coolant level.
                If you know a good reliable radiator shop, ask 'em to pressure check your cooling system twice, once with cold engine and once with warm engine. Shouldn't be a very expensive check, but could show a problem.
                /H

                Comment


                • #9
                  Are you adding fluids? Adding oil, adding transmission fluid, adding water? Can the car suck traney fluid up? I know some GM cars can.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Sounds fat (rich) from your spark plug description.
                    The factory spec's for an aftermarket carb are quite 'middle of the road' for most 'current' replacement applications. You may need to lean out the carb a bit, until you get the spark plugs to read properly. Get a 'strip kit' that has all the jets and rods in it (or borrow a friends)... Read the chart very carefully to keep the relationship between the jets and rods within the rance. Make small steps with the jets and rods. It is real easy to go too far. Get a note pad and write down where you were (number wise) and record each change. Keep leaning it out intil it reads right on the spark plugs. When it does, it will probably run right too.
                    Hang in there... You'll get it.
                    Jeff[8D]




                    quote:Originally posted by valleyguy

                    Ok, here is what I have done to the carb; per the factory
                    manual I set the float height (7/16") then the float drop (15/16" - 1"); nothing else. the factory specs are as follows:
                    main jet primary-.086", main jet secondary- .095" metering rod (primary only) .065x052", step-up spring (5") needle and seat-
                    .0935". The fuel pressure regulator is set at 5.5 psi.
                    The motor runs ok, expect when the plugs foul and then it misses;
                    I have cleaned the plus so many times I could probably do it
                    blindlfolded.... the smoke smells more acrid than sweet. again,
                    the smoke gets pregressively worse as the motor warms. There is no PCV valve that I can find. The oil in the crankcase seems fine (although a little low, presumably from burning??), There does not
                    appear to by any leaks from the radiator or motor. ?? I'm stumped.
                    If it's not the carb dumping excess fuel into the combustion chamber
                    than obviously I have a rebuild of some
                    type to consider.... Thanks for any help you can provide.
                    DEEPNHOCK at Cox.net
                    '37 Coupe Express
                    '37 Coupe Express Trailer
                    '61 Hawk

                    http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock
                    HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

                    Jeff


                    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



                    Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks for all the good input. I'll double check all the fluids,
                      for leaks and fiddle with the carb some more.


                      Comment


                      • #12
                        ok, well I rejetted the carb carefully. leaned out the carb,
                        and and there is no
                        change with the exhaust smoking. I haven't rechecked the
                        plugs yet for their condition; the exhuast smoke is still
                        light colored and there is lots of moisture coming from the
                        exahust pipes (both), even after the engine is warm; almost like a blown head gasket. But maybe that is from lack of driving the car? None of the fluids are low and the oil in the crankcase
                        looks good. There is some valve train noise.
                        Does anyone have an idea where I should start in terms of
                        checking the motor? I hate to have to
                        to pull the engine and spring for a rebuild if there is
                        something I can check/do myself. Or maybe someone knows where I can get a good motor? thanks,

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I would next do a pressure test, holding for about an hour, on the cooling system.
                          Gary L.
                          Wappinger, NY

                          SDC member since 1968
                          Studebaker enthusiast much longer

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            ok, well I have let the car sit for a couple of months pondering
                            what to do about the motor. I started it up again yesterday and
                            lo and behold, the exhaust still smokes(go figure); I noticed that the fluid in the radiator now has a silver coating (of something) floating on top, and the same residue is on the radiator cap; it looks/feels like some type of metallic paint but grittier. the fluid level does not seem to have dropped; anyone have an idea of what the cooling system is picking up and from where? thanks,

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              That silvery gunk in the cooling system sounds like a stop-leak product such as Aluma-seal. I have used such products and they do leave a residue such as you describe.

                              Try pulling the spark plugs and checking their appearance. If an engine has a coolant leak affecting one cylinder, quite often the insulator of the plug will be unusually clean and white, rather than the normal light brown.

                              Some valve train noise is normal with solid lifters.

                              Have you run through a full tank of fuel? Could be you have some old or contaminated fuel in there.

                              Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands
                              Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

                              Comment

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