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  • #16
    Continued, It would be great to hear more feedback! The Impact that the new heads may have could really create a stir. There are several offshore plants that could easily follow blueprints and supply a quality product, and perhaps big savings. Brodix, World, and several good U.S. shops also need the work. Iam very positive that there are atleast 50 people that would dig deep into the piggy bank to get a real good set of highly modified castings. Dont mean to poke so hard but its a reality that can happen with positive support and yes funding. I would think that with good leadership and directives from elected Stude racers, This task would come off smoother than one might think. There are some really great Ideas that have been tossed around. It would be a good thing to see a program of this magnitude transpire. A new Studebaker Performance Company (corporation) could be formed as a basis for this project, and all future Studebaker performance endevours. Tom.

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    • #17
      I would be happy to pay $2000 for a set of good aluminum heads and have considered building some for the last 20 years. I have been working in engineering for the last 30+ years involved in both R&D and production. I have also been involved in Studebakers off and on since I was 14.

      When we had STU-V products I think I got a good insight into the attitude of the typical Studebaker owner. We never did have very good sales on the performance equipment. Everyone complained that it cost too much, but we weren't making any money on. We were charging about 25% over our cost of production. When the gas crisis came along in 73 everyone stopped buying performance equipment.

      So here is my take on what it would take to design a head and a little about the required design. To optimize the port design within the constraints of the head bolt pattern etc. would require something like 200 to 600 hours. So let's call it 400 hours. To finish the design of the heads and make drawings will take about 200 hours. If someone was paid to do this work it would cost at least $100 per hour. Now we need to make the patterns. This will also be expensive. Most likely close to $100K. Now what does it cost to produce these. (We will assume that the first design works and we don't have to do some fine tuning on the design.) I will assume that we are commited to building 50 sets of heads and the casting vendor charges about $400 per head. Machining will be about $150 per head. Valve seats and guides about $50. Valves, valve springs and retainers for good parts for a flat tappet cam will be about $170 per head. So what does this add up to? $4740 per pair of heads.

      Perhaps some of us would do the development at no cost and make the drawings at no cost and we can reduce the cost to about $3500. (I might do that.)

      Now we need a new exhaust manifold. This will add another $400-$500 to the cost.

      So what are the important design requirements?

      - Modern cumbustion chamber design and spark plug placement
      - Raised exhaust ports with the center ports divided.
      - The intake port location needs to be the same as the standard
      heads.
      - Perhaps two designs for the intake port. One with smaller
      ports for good performance in the 2500 - 5500 rpm range and
      one with larger ports for the 3500 - 7000 rpm range.

      The issue with the intake port location has to do with using more or less stock design intake manifold. Like a slightly modified R3. We need to fit under the hood of an Avanti as well as the C-K models. There has been a lot of discussion of the R3 intake being no good but it is really not a bad manifold. The port size in the manifold is equal to the R3 intake ports. It is not a high rise design since it had to fit under the hood. Now the quality issue as produced by LS is perhaps another issue. You can also modify these intakes to fit on a standard head without too much work. A new two plane manifold could be designed that is 1 inch taller and still fit under most hoods. Beyond that and you get into trouble.

      Ok now you can throw the darts. And yes I would be willing to spend at least $2000-3000 for a set of heads.

      David L
      David L

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      • #18
        Well said David....
        And what would the 'total' market be? Once the marketing aspect primed the pump...maybe a hundred heads? Two hundred? I guess a gauge would be the LS head... How many of those are actually out there?
        One thought I would have would be to perfect a set of OE Stude iron castings and then program a CNC mill to do that work. Then plug in a set of LS aluminum heads and mill them out. This way the cost per head would come way down for a reasonable modification (which is more in norm with the Stude mentality)...
        Jeff[8D]

        quote:Originally posted by 64Avanti

        I would be happy to pay $2000 for a set of good aluminum heads and have considered building some for the last 20 years. I have been working in engineering for the last 30+ years involved in both R&D and production. I have also been involved in Studebakers off and on since I was 14.

        When we had STU-V products I think I got a good insight into the attitude of the typical Studebaker owner. We never did have very good sales on the performance equipment. Everyone complained that it cost too much, but we weren't making any money on. We were charging about 25% over our cost of production. When the gas crisis came along in 73 everyone stopped buying performance equipment.

        So here is my take on what it would take to design a head and a little about the required design. To optimize the port design within the constraints of the head bolt pattern etc. would require something like 200 to 600 hours. So let's call it 400 hours. To finish the design of the heads and make drawings will take about 200 hours. If someone was paid to do this work it would cost at least $100 per hour. Now we need to make the patterns. This will also be expensive. Most likely close to $100K. Now what does it cost to produce these. (We will assume that the first design works and we don't have to do some fine tuning on the design.) I will assume that we are commited to building 50 sets of heads and the casting vendor charges about $400 per head. Machining will be about $150 per head. Valve seats and guides about $50. Valves, valve springs and retainers for good parts for a flat tappet cam will be about $170 per head. So what does this add up to? $4740 per pair of heads.

        Perhaps some of us would do the development at no cost and make the drawings at no cost and we can reduce the cost to about $3500. (I might do that.)

        Now we need a new exhaust manifold. This will add another $400-$500 to the cost.

        So what are the important design requirements?

        - Modern cumbustion chamber design and spark plug placement
        - Raised exhaust ports with the center ports divided.
        - The intake port location needs to be the same as the standard
        heads.
        - Perhaps two designs for the intake port. One with smaller
        ports for good performance in the 2500 - 5500 rpm range and
        one with larger ports for the 3500 - 7000 rpm range.

        The issue with the intake port location has to do with using more or less stock design intake manifold. Like a slightly modified R3. We need to fit under the hood of an Avanti as well as the C-K models. There has been a lot of discussion of the R3 intake being no good but it is really not a bad manifold. The port size in the manifold is equal to the R3 intake ports. It is not a high rise design since it had to fit under the hood. Now the quality issue as produced by LS is perhaps another issue. You can also modify these intakes to fit on a standard head without too much work. A new two plane manifold could be designed that is 1 inch taller and still fit under most hoods. Beyond that and you get into trouble.

        Ok now you can throw the darts. And yes I would be willing to spend at least $2000-3000 for a set of heads.

        David L
        DEEPNHOCK at Cox.net
        '37 Coupe Express
        '37 Coupe Ex
        HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

        Jeff


        Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



        Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

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