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'64 V8 Spark Plug Wire/Distributor Order

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  • '64 V8 Spark Plug Wire/Distributor Order

    I am making a new set of wires for my Hawk. Before I started I made a diagram of the wire order on the distributor and am in the process of putting things back together. I happened to think that I had one of those Sun Electric Tune Up cards I got at a swap meet a few years ago. Much to my surprise, although the firing order matched my diagram, the clamp location and position of the distributor from the front of the engine on the card does not match (it is off about a quarter turn clockwise)! (My brother has my Shop Manual so I do not have it handy) Anyone ever use one of those cards or know why they would be different?



    Dan White
    64 R1 GT
    64 R2 GT

  • #2
    If the distributor was ever removed, it may have been installed "wrong" and rather than R&R it whoever did it may have just decided to rotate the plug wires on the dist. cap.

    I believe the "factory" location should have the vacuum advance pointing pretty much straight to the pass. side and the no. 1 wire pointing forward.

    nate

    --
    55 Commander Starlight
    62 Daytona hardtop
    http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
    --
    55 Commander Starlight
    http://members.cox.net/njnagel

    Comment


    • #3
      Nate:

      You may be correct. I am sure the distributor has been taken out. It is supposed to be a dual point but it is not. However, since the Stude distributor has a spade that slides into the oil pump slot how could it be off by roughly a 1/4 turn? If it was a gear type I could see how this might happen but?

      Dan White
      64 R1 GT
      64 R2 GT
      Dan White
      64 R1 GT
      64 R2 GT
      58 C Cab
      57 Broadmoor (Marvin)

      Comment


      • #4
        Firing order, with clip locations shown:
        http://home.comcast.net/~jdwain/Firing.order.jpg

        Dwain G.

        Comment


        • #5
          Dan,
          The gear on the distributor drives the oil pump via the shaft with the spade end. The gear could be dropped in in any old position and the oil pump would just follow. Then the wires would have to be changed to match the rotor position and then you know why it was the way it was. Does that make sense?
          Tim K.
          Tim K.
          \'64 R2 GT Hawk

          Comment


          • #6
            Yep, got it. I had it backwards, dizzy to oil pump not oil pump to dizzy.

            Thanks

            Dan White
            64 R1 GT
            64 R2 GT
            Dan White
            64 R1 GT
            64 R2 GT
            58 C Cab
            57 Broadmoor (Marvin)

            Comment


            • #7
              Not just for Dan, but I hope that you folks with Studebaker V8s know that there are new custom made spark plug wire sets for your engines. The wire sets are manufactured by a Studebaker nut that also owns a company that makes wire sets for NASCAR and other racers. The sets are not sold directly by him/his company, but are sold by a couple of vendors, including JDP that posts here. The last that I knew, the price was $25 plus $5 UPS.
              Gary L.
              Wappinger, NY

              SDC member since 1968
              Studebaker enthusiast much longer

              Comment


              • #8
                Wish I had known!!!!

                Dan White
                64 R1 GT
                64 R2 GT
                Dan White
                64 R1 GT
                64 R2 GT
                58 C Cab
                57 Broadmoor (Marvin)

                Comment


                • #9
                  quote:Originally posted by studegary

                  Not just for Dan, but I hope that you folks with Studebaker V8s know that there are new custom made spark plug wire sets for your engines. The wire sets are manufactured by a Studebaker nut that also owns a company that makes wire sets for NASCAR and other racers. The sets are not sold directly by him/his company, but are sold by a couple of vendors, including JDP that posts here. The last that I knew, the price was $25 plus $5 UPS.
                  What a coincidence (but not suprising) that this topic is front and center in the Tech Talk Forum. I happen to have a question about plug wires. As many of you have helped walk me through some recent upgrades I have made to my 63 Daytona (289 c.i.) I'm sure you can help me now as well.

                  I installed my new Edelbrock 1403 carb and had a mechanic friend set the timing, dwell, and install a Pertronix electronic ignition and Flamethrower coil. I got the car back Friday and she really wants to run, but is stumbling a bit. My friend said I may need new plug wires (the "standard" set that is in it are about 5 years old).

                  The guy at my local Advance Auto store says I need special wires, made for electronic ignitions, instead of the standard type that I have now. [u]Questions one</u>: Is this so and can someone please provide some details as to what kind of wires I need/source? The AA guy didn't have any in stock to fit my car. [u]Question one-B</u>: Could this really be the source of the stumbling/skipping of the engine?

                  I'm also a little skeptical about the connection of the new ignition to the new coil. [u]Question two</u>: I'm really going to show my ignorance here, but is the little resistor-looking thing that's mounted to the coil bracket supposed to be connected to the negative post on the coil?

                  Thanks for your help, in advance.

                  '63 Daytona Convertible

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I assume you are referring to the condensor, little metal can with a wire sticking out, it goes to the + side. However, if you are referring to the balast resistor, you probably do not need one for the electronic ignition, butit also connects to the + side.



                    Dan White
                    64 R1 GT
                    64 R2 GT
                    Dan White
                    64 R1 GT
                    64 R2 GT
                    58 C Cab
                    57 Broadmoor (Marvin)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      For those with 1963-1964 models - the correct secondary (spark plug) wires are maroon in color. It will be near to impossible to find the correct wires available in sets. The guy/company that makes the wire sets for Studebakers can supply the maroon wires if someone is willing to buy the large coil of maroon wire. Most people use black.
                      Gary L.
                      Wappinger, NY

                      SDC member since 1968
                      Studebaker enthusiast much longer

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        quote:Originally posted by PalmerGA

                        quote:Originally posted by studegary

                        Not just for Dan, but I hope that you folks with Studebaker V8s know that there are new custom made spark plug wire sets for your engines. The wire sets are manufactured by a Studebaker nut that also owns a company that makes wire sets for NASCAR and other racers. The sets are not sold directly by him/his company, but are sold by a couple of vendors, including JDP that posts here. The last that I knew, the price was $25 plus $5 UPS.
                        What a coincidence (but not suprising) that this topic is front and center in the Tech Talk Forum. I happen to have a question about plug wires. As many of you have helped walk me through some recent upgrades I have made to my 63 Daytona (289 c.i.) I'm sure you can help me now as well.

                        I installed my new Edelbrock 1403 carb and had a mechanic friend set the timing, dwell, and install a Pertronix electronic ignition and Flamethrower coil. I got the car back Friday and she really wants to run, but is stumbling a bit. My friend said I may need new plug wires (the "standard" set that is in it are about 5 years old).

                        The guy at my local Advance Auto store says I need special wires, made for electronic ignitions, instead of the standard type that I have now. [u]Questions one</u>: Is this so and can someone please provide some details as to what kind of wires I need/source? The AA guy didn't have any in stock to fit my car. [u]Question one-B</u>: Could this really be the source of the stumbling/skipping of the engine?

                        I'm also a little skeptical about the connection of the new ignition to the new coil. [u]Question two</u>: I'm really going to show my ignorance here, but is the little resistor-looking thing that's mounted to the coil bracket supposed to be connected to the negative post on the coil?

                        Thanks for your help, in advance.

                        '63 Daytona Convertible
                        Hey Jim,

                        Glad to hear that you got that carb. on. One thing for reference, you can't set the dwell with the Pertronix unit in there. Set the distributor up exactly by the directions in the installation sheet, (you're looking for a specific gap). So, if he tried to set the dwell, that may be the first problem. The Pertronix is just a triggering unit.

                        You can use any wire set that you want, basically they're all the same nowadays, but there's two varieties. There is the "solid wire core" style, (just as described, solid wire tip to tip, bad for radio interference), and the "carbon wire/resistor" style. Just because they tend to reduce radio noise, I would go for the electronic ignition style wires. There is also the issue of size, and usually 8 MM is the "standard" choice. Heavier is not always better, unless you're running a nitro fuel dragster. Get the wires right from AA.

                        Unless you buy them from a Stude vendor and they're already the right length with the ends already installed, you'll have to buy a set that requires you to cut them to length and affix the end that goes into the distributor, (a universal set).

                        Yes, wires can be a cause for stumbling/skipping, but it could be a couple of different things. When was the last time it had new spark plugs? After all of the work you've done, check it over real good for vacuum leaks, be sure the curb idle fuel mixture setting is right and check that timing again. You can safely increase the timing to at least 8 degrees BTDC, from the factory setting of 4 BTDC, try that. Check that the vacuum advance is still working correctly, (use a vacuum pump to watch the advance actually move the plate in the distributor). Also, a stumble can be a weak/inop accelerator pump, but doubtful in your
                        Sonny
                        http://RacingStudebakers.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Gary, I believe those maroon wires may have been used earlier. I took a set off my (early) '62 Lark when I got it; with 24K miles it is not hard to imagine they were original. I gave one to Brian Scott in case he ever decides to go nuts...

                          nate

                          --
                          55 Commander Starlight
                          62 Daytona hardtop
                          http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
                          --
                          55 Commander Starlight
                          http://members.cox.net/njnagel

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            quote:Originally posted by SonnyHey Jim,

                            Glad to hear that you got that carb. on. One thing for reference, you can't set the dwell with the Pertronix unit in there. Set the distributor up exactly by the directions in the installation sheet, (you're looking for a specific gap). So, if he tried to set the dwell, that may be the first problem. The Pertronix is just a triggering unit.

                            You can use any wire set that you want, basically they're all the same nowadays, but there's two varieties. There is the "solid wire core" style, (just as described, solid wire tip to tip, bad for radio interference), and the "carbon wire/resistor" style. Just because they tend to reduce radio noise, I would go for the electronic ignition style wires. There is also the issue of size, and usually 8 MM is the "standard" choice. Heavier is not always better, unless you're running a nitro fuel dragster. Get the wires right from AA.

                            Unless you buy them from a Stude vendor and they're already the right length with the ends already installed, you'll have to buy a set that requires you to cut them to length and affix the end that goes into the distributor, (a universal set).

                            Yes, wires can be a cause for stumbling/skipping, but it could be a couple of different things. When was the last time it had new spark plugs? After all of the work you've done, check it over real good for vacuum leaks, be sure the curb idle fuel mixture setting is right and check that timing again. You can safely increase the timing to at least 8 degrees BTDC, from the factory setting of 4 BTDC, try that. Check that the vacuum advance is still working correctly, (use a vacuum pump to watch the advance actually move the plate in the distributor). Also, a stumble can be a weak/inop accelerator pump, but doubtful in your case. How does the car start when cold and hot?

                            As far as the little resistor thing, I think someone else got that one for ya.

                            Sonny
                            http://RacingStudebakers.com
                            Hey Sonny,
                            I'll be picking up a set of the 8mm universal Accel wires tomorrow. I'll have to ask my friend if he set the dwell before installing the elec. ignition. The engine cranks right up hot or cold, just rough idling and (of course) the stumbling upon acceleration.

                            I'll let you know how I make out. Thanks a bunch, as always, to all.

                            '63 Daytona Convertible

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              quote:Originally posted by PalmerGA
                              Hey Sonny,
                              I'll be picking up a set of the 8mm universal Accel wires tomorrow. I'll have to ask my friend if he set the dwell before installing the elec. ignition. The engine cranks right up hot or cold, just rough idling and (of course) the stumbling upon acceleration.

                              I'll let you know how I make out. Thanks a bunch, as always, to all.

                              '63 Daytona Convertible
                              Hey again Jim,

                              Yep, the Accel wires will work just fine. One word on the dwell, it's set dynamically, (while the engine is turned over/running), meaning that mebbe after he installed the Pertronix unit, he THEN tried to set the dwell. After you install the Pertronix unit according to it's installation sheet it controls the dwell, never needs to be reset again.

                              Tell ya what, in this order, slap those wires on, check that vacuum advance out carefully, make sure it's working properly, then set the timing at 8 degrees BTDC and the curb idle mixture as per the service manual. When ever you advance or retard the timing it will effect the idle up and down, so it will always need to be reset. Then road test the car, put it under various loads, (hard throttle bursts at cruise, go up a hill if ya can, etc.), if you get any pinging, reset the timing like we've talked about previously.

                              Thanks for keeping us updated.

                              Sonny
                              http://RacingStudebakers.com
                              Sonny
                              http://RacingStudebakers.com

                              Comment

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