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Fuel Pump and Cursed Avanti

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  • Fuel Pump and Cursed Avanti

    I decided to take a little road trip with the Avanti yesterday--first one of the Summer. The local Stude club had a get together about 140 miles from home. I've had continuing fuel deliver issues with this vehicle for SOME time and therefore no time behind the wheel. However, I THOUGHT I had them solved (new M6902 pump, rebuilt AFB, new return line, cleared all three lines with compressed air, new filter--all set to go, or so I thought). This is an R2, by the way. First 1 1/2 hours into the trip the engine ran fine and then gradually began to lose power on hills and engine wouldn't exceed 3500 rpm. Checked clear plastic fuel line filter and it was virtually EMPTY of fuel (also no trash in the filter--never has been any crud collecting in the filter). So here I am by this time 105-110 miles from home and GOT THAT BAD FEELING! Turned around and headed for home hoping I could nurse it back. Power issue continued to worsen and soon was down to about 45 mph max and then the CURSED Avanti just died. So...opened hood and received a major shock. Oil everywhere under the hood (well, almost everywhere). The fuel pump had expired and was sucking oil and sending it to the carb. What oill didn't go through the engine the carb was puking out the flapper valve on the supercharger inlet to the carb. Also oil on the cross member below the fuel pump(?). Oil level down a QUART. End of story (wish it were a FABLE)--some major cash outlay to be flat bedded 85 miles home; never had to do that before and I'm in my 60s. What the H*ll caused that new fuel pump to crash--and I'd never heard that pumps would pull oil from the crankcase like that. Could a blockage in the tank cause a pump to expire in this fashion? The tank is NOT (thankfully, as there is about 10-12 gallons in the tank) draining into the engine sump--which could indicate a blockage, but would a blocked fuel line or tank cause the pump diaphgram to rupture? As I write this I would sell the Avanti for two bucks--any takers? Please help resolve this mess. [xx(][xx(][V][V]

    wagone in the Avanti from H*ll

  • #2
    SOLD! Tell me where to Paypal the money[8D]

    ________________________
    Mark Anderson
    http://home.alltel.net/anderm
    1965 Studebaker Cruiser

    Comment


    • #3
      Hey Guys: I've had an e-mail communication from Ted Harbit this morning and he feels that the pump shaft seal where the arm connects to the diaphragm shaft must be missing on this pump and that the oil is therefore coming up the s'charger pressure equalizing hose and then drawn into the carb with the air flow. So I checked and that is the case, the oil was not being drawn along with the fuel. So, apparently I've got two problems--a plugged tank and a missing seal on the fuel pump. But it is going to be real interesting as to what I find in the tank--something that kind of floats around and then gets sucked over the outlet opening from the tank occasionally! I've been told by people who should know that Studebaker did not use a sock type strainer at the discharge from the tank so it is very unlikely that my problem is crud in the tank--but who knows. Any thing put in the tank (a kids toy or ball?) via the filler neck would appear to be prevented from reaching the tank outlet by the baffle.......but the tank's got to come out in any event. H*ll, maybe a bunch of marbles--something small enough to get past the baffle but still large enough to.........

      wagone

      Comment


      • #4
        So, does this mean I'm not the proud owner of an R2 Avanti?[V]

        ________________________
        Mark Anderson
        http://home.alltel.net/anderm
        1965 Studebaker Cruiser

        Comment


        • #5
          Several years ago I had a problem that made my Impala act like it was running out of gas, especilly with a full tank. After a frustrating several months I discovered the gas cap was not venting and the vent tube had crud in it. Does the Avanti have a tank vent and if so, is it venting...?

          Buddy...'54 Champion 2dr

          Comment


          • #6
            Good point, Buddy! The wrong type gas cap has crippled more than one good Studebaker.[xx(] And the frustrating thing is that it'll cure itself after it sits a bit. Gets diagnosed as vapor-lock too![:0]

            Miscreant at large.

            1957 Transtar 1/2ton
            1960 Larkvertible V8
            1958 Provincial wagon
            1953 Commander coupe
            1957 President 2-dr
            1955 President State
            1951 Champion Biz cpe
            1963 Daytona project FS
            No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks for the advice, guys! I don't know if this is the original gas cap (but it sure has the nice looking "use premium fuel only" sticker on it!) or not--but I've blown out the vent line. So I'm ASSUMING (what a NASTY word that is--especially in human relations!) that the tank is vented. There is, however, another '63 Avanti in town that is STILL WITH THE ORIGINAL OWNER (of all things) so I can compare the two--but with the vent line I would think that the cap itself is not vented. This thing is driving me nuts--maybe that's a sign that I don't have far to go![xx(] I've been told by two different people that they don't think there is a strainer or sock on the outlet from the tank or I'd sure think that is the problem--I don't get any (ANY) crud in my see through filter. It sure acts like vapor lock, but yesterday the temp was under 80 degrees and I was cruising at a conservative 60 mph on the open road! And I've blown out the return line to the tank. The return line from the tank has a small diameter opening in it, but I must admit I have never measured it to see how small (MUST do that) it is--supposedly not more than .030-.040" from the factory. And I have a Chevy 160 degree thermostat in it and by the gage it never runs more than 170 degrees--so its not overheating and boiling the fuel--and the line is no closer to the exhaust than any other Avanti (like about 1 1/2 inches away). I wonder if the hose from the fuel pump to the s'charger could have gotten enough oil in it to DRASTICALLY reduce the suction stroke of the fuel pump--nah, that really is crazy. But what the h*ll could be in the tank? I guess I'll not know until I pull the damn thing out. But I sure blew out and burned a quart of oil in a hurry--as well as tore up four hundred dollar bills in the tow home--don't wanna do that again! And the damnest thing is that my (understanding) wife wasn't even surprised when she saw the tow truck pull up in the yard--never even blinked an eye! I haven't decided if that is a good sign or bad--probably neither. The guy with the tow truck said (when he finally arrived) that he thought the hose to the pump's inlet was kinda soft--and its a new hose-- and that kinda makes me think of a restriction at the tank or in the suction line (collapsing the hose). I checked the suction on the pump about a week ago (I was thinking the cam eccentric might be worn) and it pulled 15" of mercury with the engine idling (that seems a LOT) so that theory was immediately discounted. But why do I seem to be loosing suction at the pump and after driving for most of an hour-and-half? Crazy! Just thought of a question: might the pump be creating too much suction and thus collapse the hose preventing delivery of fuel. Boy that's kinda crazy too (getting desperate here) and what could cause it if that were the problem? I dunno and I'm at my wits end. Gotta go check that restriction in the return line and see how small is small or how big is big, I suppose.

              wagone in the cursed Avanti I

              Comment


              • #8
                Could be a number of things, best to start cleaning, removing and replacing parts all the way back to the tank and to the cap.
                Assume it makes an ass out of u and an ass out of me.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi all, I had a similar problem with my Avanti last year, large amounts of oil over the engine ,fuel woes, it was the new fuel pump pypassing oil out of the fuel pump vent hole, when I pulled the pump apart I found a seal missing.I fitted a replacement pump and no more problems. It took me a long time to figure out.
                  Roger.

                  R.A.Jennings
                  R.A.Jennings

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Wagone,

                    I had the exact same problem on my '55 coupe when
                    I installed a "new" 57-58 Golden Hawk fuel pump on it. It actually *solved* my fuel starvation problem but was blowing oil out the bost reference fitting on the pump, which caused lots of scary blue smoke.

                    The R2 fuel pump is rebuildable, and is not difficult, why not rebuild yours and see what happens? maybe you have some trash in a check valve. It certainly sounds like the diaphragm has still held (and/or you have a blocked fuel line again, as by all rights it *should* be draining into the crankcase.)

                    BTW I'll pay a whole FIVE bucks for your car, two is really just insultingly low IMHO

                    nate

                    --
                    55 Commander Starlight
                    62 Daytona hardtop
                    http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
                    --
                    55 Commander Starlight
                    http://members.cox.net/njnagel

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      This won't explain your oil loss problem,but a few years ago on a brand-x car we had a siimilar fuel delivery problem.Finally found a tiny rusted area in the gas line above the rear axle,the thing would get fuel for a while then start gradually pulling air into the fuelline from the rust hole.[A tiny wet spot of gas around the rusted line finally showed itself,barely enough to darken the area a bit]
                      I'll bid $7.00 !!!

                      Hawks,Larks,and other critters!
                      Oglesby,Il.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        There is a species of wasp that likes to build mud nests in small tubes/cavities. It has been known to plug more than one gas tank vent tube. I'd check it.
                        Tim K.
                        Tim K.
                        \'64 R2 GT Hawk

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'd vote for debris in the tank. Kids seem to like stuffing things in gas tanks, not out of malice, just because it seems to be fun to do. Look for a scrap of plastic bag, or leaves. Another possibilty might be the foil seal from a container of Dry-gas or fuel conditioner.

                          I had the tank apart on my Avanti many moons ago, and I dont't recall a filter sock, and I'm pretty certian other Studes don't use one, either. If you do take the tank out of the Avanti (fun job, NOT), check the bottom carefully. Sometimes the spot welds that retain the baffles can crack, leading to pinhole leaks and gas fumes in the car. I found several such leaks on my Avanti, and I cleaned the outside of the tank bottom and soldered pennies over the holes using a big old-fashioned copper soldering iron, the kind you heat with a torch a LONG way from the tank under surgery.

                          Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands
                          Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I've never seen a "sock" or other type filter in a Stude tank. Wish it was easy to add such![:I]
                            Ramblers had them tho. At least the early to mid 60s one I have owned did.

                            Miscreant at large.

                            1957 Transtar 1/2ton
                            1960 Larkvertible V8
                            1958 Provincial wagon
                            1953 Commander coupe
                            1957 President 2-dr
                            1955 President State
                            1951 Champion Biz cpe
                            1963 Daytona project FS
                            No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thanks for all the advice guys. As soon as I get a couple of pressing jobs done around here I'm going to pull the tank and see what I find. I'd vote for a pin hole in the fuel line thought only, remember, the fuel line comes out of the bottom (not top) of the tank on the Avanti and hence a hole here is less likely to suck air than a line out the top of the tank where the pump has to lift the fuel. Unless the tank is blocked, gravity should always keep the fuel line on an Avanti full of fuel and thus (it would seem) prevent air from being drawn in--again, UNLIKE a line out the top of the tank. Course if the tank vent is not working all bets are off. Thanks again.

                              wagone and cursed Avanti I

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