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  • Roscomacaw
    replied
    Thanks Ted! benny - did you get that?

    Miscreant at large.

    1957 Transtar 1/2ton
    1960 Larkvertible V8
    1958 Provincial wagon
    1953 Commander coupe
    1957 President 2-dr
    1955 President State
    1951 Champion Biz cpe
    1963 Daytona project FS

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  • N8N
    replied
    Thanks for the info Ted, I was just wondering the same thing myself! Got a std. bore 289 (as far as I know, that is) that seems to run strong and was thinking of warming it up some... guess I will have to just build a whole 'nother engine if I want ultimate power.

    nate

    --
    55 Commander Starlight
    62 Daytona hardtop
    http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

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  • Chicken Hawk
    replied
    Mr. Biggs: Most of the time, the R 3 intakes will clear on a stock bore; however, I would ALWAYS check to be sure. I have had to trim .020" off the valve to get clearance (.010" per side). Unless the engine is bored at least .030" I would check to be sure. It's so easy to check it's not worth chancing it.

    As for the inserts, I sold several sets when in the parts business but always gave them my experience which is I've never put them in any of my own engines and haven't had any problems.

    Ted

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  • Mike Van Veghten
    replied
    MrBiggs,

    Depends on the application. If it's going to be an around town car, or occasional trip car, no I don't. But if the person's going to actually be driving it, yes, absolutly. I'd rather them spend a few extra bucks now than have them unhappy later cause the exhaust valves won't stay adjusted.

    Funny, my everyday driver, a 59 Lark w/259...I've had for about 7 years now... I adjusted the valves not long after I bought it. For being made of "super iron", they need the exhaust adjusted just like most any other early headded enginge....about 4000/4500 miles, while the intakes normally get adjusted every 5 or 6 exhaust adjustment intervals.

    Another thing about the "super iron"...I've noticed a big difference in the way the fresh iron (after grinding, machining, etc.) differs from head to head. I've had one head discolor in days, while the one next to it stays clean and shiney untill I'm done with them. Gotta say something about the consistancy of the batch to batch material in the cast iron of the 50's/60's. Stude iron also doesn't wear out cutters any faster then plain ol Chevy - Ford - Chrysler iron heads. As for being overall a better material than any other....not as far as I've seen so far.

    Alan,

    Thanks, I've talked to them in the past. When you get away from the norm, the cost skyrockets. Most Stude guys have a hard enough time justifying the porting in the first place. I am thinking about it for plugging the heat crossover ports though. I want to plug them in a set of heads for myself right at the back of the port....so all the ports are the same in the bowl area.
    Thanks again.

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  • Alan
    replied
    Hey Mike why don't you try Martin Wells in L.A. they do nothing but seats and will build you any thing that you want.

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  • Roscomacaw
    replied
    I'm curious, Mike. Do you just summarily install hardened seats on all Stude heads you do? I ask because this is contrary wisdom to what the Stude experts have been preaching all along.
    I'm running the same un-seated heads on my Transtar that that engine had when I rescued it from a bent 64 Daytona. I think maybe I've adjusted the valves 3 times in 16 years of driving it. Driving it long and often and using the truck to pull other Studes on heavy trailers - up and over the grapevine and up and down the state. No detectable seat regression yet.
    I've got scads of V8 heads lying around here - none with seat erosion. Why is this?[?]

    Miscreant at large.

    1957 Transtar 1/2ton
    1960 Larkvertible V8
    1958 Provincial wagon
    1953 Commander coupe
    1957 President 2-dr
    1955 President State
    1951 Champion Biz cpe
    1963 Daytona project FS

    Leave a comment:


  • Mike Van Veghten
    replied
    Funny.
    No one likes headers...but some say the exhaust valve is currently large enough for a naturly aspirated engine?? This "is" a correct statement.

    With so many people asking me to put the larger exhaust valves in when porting and installing larger intakes on a carbureted engine, then get upset because I say it's not the correct thing to do...despite "what the Stude experts told me!"

    Actually, the exhaust valve is a quite a bit too large in stock form, compared to the "stock" intake. The size difference is, the exhaust should be approx. 80% of the intake. So that means the exhaust should be 1.50" diameter with a 1.875" intake. I've looked at a smaller hard seat inserts but can't get a long enough one to fill more of the port bowl for proper blending.

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  • Roscomacaw
    replied
    Thanks Ted. I don't feel real comfortable dragging someone else's name into the fray, but if it means keeping someone from frivilously tossing money around, I figure they ought to know what's already been learned in the past. I've been away since I last posted to this topic and while gone, I got to thinking that I should have mentioned that the standard exhaust valves seem to be adequate.
    Ted, will the R3 intake valves clear the cylinder ridge without chamfering it? The engine I gave benny to work with has been bored .080 over already. Thanks.

    Miscreant at large.

    1957 Transtar 1/2ton
    1960 Larkvertible V8
    1958 Provincial wagon
    1953 Commander coupe
    1957 President 2-dr
    1955 President State
    1951 Champion Biz cpe
    1963 Daytona project FS

    Leave a comment:


  • Alan
    replied
    My experiances mirror Ted's. I have been running a 53K in the L.A. area since 1958 at San Fernando Raceway and others in N and M Stock. The best way I have found to improve performance is with gears and and traction. Studes come out of the hole good but tend to flatten out in 3rd. gear, nothing is so unnerving as geting a hole shot and watching as the other guy comes up in the rear view mirror on the top end.

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  • Alan
    replied
    My experiances mirror Ted's, I have found the most gains on Studes to come from a change in gears and ways to get more traction. Studes seem to run strong up to third gear and flaten out on the top end.

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  • Chicken Hawk
    replied
    I guess my name has been mentioned a couple times on this subject so I'll pass on what my experience has been. Back in the '50's when I started running the 232, I had the stock exhaust manifolds. When I went to the first set of headers, they were a "Y" type. They did help a little over the stock 232 manifolds but those are really small ports on those manifolds. The headers did make some difference but it was not a great deal.

    I later experimented with some different home made tube headers and none helped any more than the other. I even put a divider in the center port one time and used four pipes. When I started the engine I thought I really had hit on something. The car sounded totally different and MUCH louder. ET slips showed they didn't help either. I even run pipes back almost to the start of the rear fenders and tried cutting them off about six inches at a time and nothing I did seemed to make any difference.

    Years later when I put an R 2 engine in place of the 232, I used a set of three tube headers I had run on the 232. Later I made another set with bigger pipes as the 232 pipes were pretty small. When I put the bigger pipes on, it made no difference.

    I have experimented some with stock manifolds and the tube headers and the cast iron R 3 headers and I can say the headers do help some over the stock manifolds; however, unless you have money left over after doing some other more power yielding things such as cam, bigger valves, compression, etc., headers would be last on the list for dollars spent per hp gain.

    Of course you should go to at least 2" exhaust all the way back and preferably 2 1/4". We have 2 1/2" on the Tomato and Plain Brown Wrapper simply because the rules say we can go up to that size.

    On the Chicken Hawk with the dual turbos, I didn't want to take time to build headers so I just turned the stock exhaust manifold unside down and made a box on them to mount the turbos. I've often wondered how much difference a set of headers would make on it. I do have a set made for the Avanti to mount the turbos on if I ever get time to work on it.

    I read one post where the aluminum intake was mentioned. I did try that and even cut on it and rewelded trying to improve the ports to make them more even as they were pretty poor. About all I can say about the aluminum intake is it will run cooler and is lighter but I didn't fine any increase in performace with it.

    All this has just been my experience and others may have found different results. Naturally on headers, I think the more headwork done with larger valves, etc., will help some.

    Naturally aspirated engines probably do not need any bigger exhaust valves. The 1.531 stock exhaust is pretty good size so the most gain would be with the R 3 intakes (1.875" compared to the stock 1.656").

    Ted

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  • DilloCrafter
    replied
    Thanks, Transtar60. You're a stud.

    1955 1/2 Ton Pickup

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  • Transtar60
    replied
    You can ask Cathart but I believe thats the choke air heat tube, not a stud.

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  • DilloCrafter
    replied
    If I put a dual intake on my Champion Six, I'll need exhaust headers. On this page at Cathcarts http://www.cathcartsstudebaker.com/p...erformance.htm what is that upward protruding stud on the left side header?

    1955 1/2 Ton Pickup

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  • Sonny
    replied
    quote:Originally posted by curt

    A question: a header is equal to manifild?
    Basically, yes, headers replace your exhaust manifolds. However, headers, (constructed of individual sections of exhaust pipe that connect to each individual exhaust port on your head), are "tuned" to extract the exhaust gasses and be much more free flowing into your exhaust system, (as opposed to your engine normally having to push the gasses out when it has stock exhaust manifolds). They do increase power when they are tuned correctly.

    Sonny
    http://RacingStudebakers.com

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