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  • #16
    Well, as a large air pump, it would depend on the entire system. If the heads are the big restriction, headers won't help. I would think increasing the breathing capability of the heads would make headers worth having.

    I would guess R3 headers would work well with R3 heads and their larger valves, camshaft, and higher boost pressure of the supercharger. Putting those headers on a 259 (or 289) with stock heads won't make a difference.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Tom - Sterling Heights, MI

    Ancient Chinese Proverb: "Injection is nice, but I'd rather be blown!"

    1964 Studebaker Daytona - Laguna Blue, Original 4-Spd. Car, Power Steering, Disc Brakes, Bucket Seats, Tinted Glass, Climatizer Ventilation System, AM Radio (136,989 Miles)
    Tom - Bradenton, FL

    1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2514.10)
    1964 Studebaker Commander - 170 1V, 3-Speed w/OD

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    • #17
      By the way, if these are cast iron, has anyone looked at doing these in stainless? I would imagine a set of headers made from stainless (or other lightweight steel) if nothing else, would decrease the weight of the front end (however small) from the weight of cast iron manifolds or headers.

      ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Tom - Sterling Heights, MI

      Ancient Chinese Proverb: "Injection is nice, but I'd rather be blown!"

      1964 Studebaker Daytona - Laguna Blue, Original 4-Spd. Car, Power Steering, Disc Brakes, Bucket Seats, Tinted Glass, Climatizer Ventilation System, AM Radio (136,989 Miles)
      Tom - Bradenton, FL

      1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2514.10)
      1964 Studebaker Commander - 170 1V, 3-Speed w/OD

      Comment


      • #18
        Stainless headers are nice but you are looking at $500.00 up. On the cast iron R3's the Avanti and Larks sit about 3" lower in the chassis, and some people want them for originality but they didn't come on C's or K's anyway.

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        • #19
          well not a whole lot burning a hole, just want to make sure i put my money in the right places. i am already planning on getting my heads worked on, a r2+ cam, lifters, r3 springs, and flat top pistons. that should be a pretty big change of pace from my burnt out 259. it gets down the road just fine, i just really want more power. but don't we all?

          slow64
          1964 lark daytona
          bd_marks@yahoo.com

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          • #20
            When you get close to needing your headers, give me a call....
            Jeff[8D]



            quote:Originally posted by benny_64

            well not a whole lot burning a hole, just want to make sure i put my money in the right places. i am already planning on getting my heads worked on, a r2+ cam, lifters, r3 springs, and flat top pistons. that should be a pretty big change of pace from my burnt out 259. it gets down the road just fine, i just really want more power. but don't we all?

            slow64
            1964 lark daytona
            bd_marks@yahoo.com
            DEEPNHOCK at Cox.net
            '37 Coupe Express
            '37 Coupe Express Trailer
            '61 Hawk

            http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock
            HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

            Jeff


            Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



            Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

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            • #21
              A question: a header is equal to manifild?

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              • #22
                quote:Originally posted by curt

                A question: a header is equal to manifild?
                Basically, yes, headers replace your exhaust manifolds. However, headers, (constructed of individual sections of exhaust pipe that connect to each individual exhaust port on your head), are "tuned" to extract the exhaust gasses and be much more free flowing into your exhaust system, (as opposed to your engine normally having to push the gasses out when it has stock exhaust manifolds). They do increase power when they are tuned correctly.

                Sonny
                http://RacingStudebakers.com
                Sonny
                http://RacingStudebakers.com

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                • #23
                  If I put a dual intake on my Champion Six, I'll need exhaust headers. On this page at Cathcarts http://www.cathcartsstudebaker.com/p...erformance.htm what is that upward protruding stud on the left side header?

                  1955 1/2 Ton Pickup

                  Paul Simpson
                  "DilloCrafter"

                  1955 1/2 Ton Pickup
                  The Red-Headed Amazon
                  Deep in the heart of Texas

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                  • #24
                    You can ask Cathart but I believe thats the choke air heat tube, not a stud.

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                    • #25
                      Thanks, Transtar60. You're a stud.

                      1955 1/2 Ton Pickup

                      Paul Simpson
                      "DilloCrafter"

                      1955 1/2 Ton Pickup
                      The Red-Headed Amazon
                      Deep in the heart of Texas

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I guess my name has been mentioned a couple times on this subject so I'll pass on what my experience has been. Back in the '50's when I started running the 232, I had the stock exhaust manifolds. When I went to the first set of headers, they were a "Y" type. They did help a little over the stock 232 manifolds but those are really small ports on those manifolds. The headers did make some difference but it was not a great deal.

                        I later experimented with some different home made tube headers and none helped any more than the other. I even put a divider in the center port one time and used four pipes. When I started the engine I thought I really had hit on something. The car sounded totally different and MUCH louder. ET slips showed they didn't help either. I even run pipes back almost to the start of the rear fenders and tried cutting them off about six inches at a time and nothing I did seemed to make any difference.

                        Years later when I put an R 2 engine in place of the 232, I used a set of three tube headers I had run on the 232. Later I made another set with bigger pipes as the 232 pipes were pretty small. When I put the bigger pipes on, it made no difference.

                        I have experimented some with stock manifolds and the tube headers and the cast iron R 3 headers and I can say the headers do help some over the stock manifolds; however, unless you have money left over after doing some other more power yielding things such as cam, bigger valves, compression, etc., headers would be last on the list for dollars spent per hp gain.

                        Of course you should go to at least 2" exhaust all the way back and preferably 2 1/4". We have 2 1/2" on the Tomato and Plain Brown Wrapper simply because the rules say we can go up to that size.

                        On the Chicken Hawk with the dual turbos, I didn't want to take time to build headers so I just turned the stock exhaust manifold unside down and made a box on them to mount the turbos. I've often wondered how much difference a set of headers would make on it. I do have a set made for the Avanti to mount the turbos on if I ever get time to work on it.

                        I read one post where the aluminum intake was mentioned. I did try that and even cut on it and rewelded trying to improve the ports to make them more even as they were pretty poor. About all I can say about the aluminum intake is it will run cooler and is lighter but I didn't fine any increase in performace with it.

                        All this has just been my experience and others may have found different results. Naturally on headers, I think the more headwork done with larger valves, etc., will help some.

                        Naturally aspirated engines probably do not need any bigger exhaust valves. The 1.531 stock exhaust is pretty good size so the most gain would be with the R 3 intakes (1.875" compared to the stock 1.656").

                        Ted

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                        • #27
                          My experiances mirror Ted's, I have found the most gains on Studes to come from a change in gears and ways to get more traction. Studes seem to run strong up to third gear and flaten out on the top end.

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                          • #28
                            My experiances mirror Ted's. I have been running a 53K in the L.A. area since 1958 at San Fernando Raceway and others in N and M Stock. The best way I have found to improve performance is with gears and and traction. Studes come out of the hole good but tend to flatten out in 3rd. gear, nothing is so unnerving as geting a hole shot and watching as the other guy comes up in the rear view mirror on the top end.

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                            • #29
                              Thanks Ted. I don't feel real comfortable dragging someone else's name into the fray, but if it means keeping someone from frivilously tossing money around, I figure they ought to know what's already been learned in the past. I've been away since I last posted to this topic and while gone, I got to thinking that I should have mentioned that the standard exhaust valves seem to be adequate.
                              Ted, will the R3 intake valves clear the cylinder ridge without chamfering it? The engine I gave benny to work with has been bored .080 over already. Thanks.

                              Miscreant at large.

                              1957 Transtar 1/2ton
                              1960 Larkvertible V8
                              1958 Provincial wagon
                              1953 Commander coupe
                              1957 President 2-dr
                              1955 President State
                              1951 Champion Biz cpe
                              1963 Daytona project FS
                              No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

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                              • #30
                                Funny.
                                No one likes headers...but some say the exhaust valve is currently large enough for a naturly aspirated engine?? This "is" a correct statement.

                                With so many people asking me to put the larger exhaust valves in when porting and installing larger intakes on a carbureted engine, then get upset because I say it's not the correct thing to do...despite "what the Stude experts told me!"

                                Actually, the exhaust valve is a quite a bit too large in stock form, compared to the "stock" intake. The size difference is, the exhaust should be approx. 80% of the intake. So that means the exhaust should be 1.50" diameter with a 1.875" intake. I've looked at a smaller hard seat inserts but can't get a long enough one to fill more of the port bowl for proper blending.

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