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Lead additive

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  • Lead additive

    I mentioned this in "Boiling gas" but didn't really get an answer. Is lead additive an absolute every fillup or an occasional thing? I've heard both ways. I've had a stack of pre-70 cars, but only one that I drove every day, a 67 barracuda with the 273 Commando. I had this car for 15 years and drove as a primary the first two. Other than the first few tanks, I rareley used lead additive. I have been told that it isn't that important to use lead additive on short runs, but on trips that run the engine for a few hours, you should use it.I never had trouble with the Cudas' valves, but blew head gaskets like candy, which I blamed on too much compression and not planing the block when I rebuilt it. I noticed that none of the parts stores around here stock lead additive it now.

    63 R2 Avanti

  • #2
    Hastings makes a lead substitute that I use on almost every tank. Probably not really necessary but can't hurt.

    Dan White
    64 R1 GT
    64 R2 GT
    Dan White
    64 R1 GT
    64 R2 GT
    58 C Cab
    57 Broadmoor (Marvin)

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    • #3
      This was discussed at length here:

      http://www.studebakerdriversclub.com...archTerms=lead

      ________________________
      Mark Anderson
      http://home.alltel.net/anderm
      1965 Studebaker Cruiser

      Comment


      • #4
        Some have told me to use a higher ocatane, like 89 vs. 87, will help the valves . I don't have a clue one way or the other. In the Kaiser Club the word was 4 oz of Marvel Mystry oil per fill up would prevent valve burning. I used a bardol product from Wall-Mart and never had any problems. I gather the Studebakers have a harder metal in the castings and that should help on recession in the seat area. For some reason I thought the Studebaker owners feel the valves were not a problem when just running regular fuel. Any one, what is the thought.

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        • #5
          The consensus was that if you have a Studebaker engine, the metallurgy of the engine would prevent valve recession. If it's a later McKinnon engine--maybe not.

          At any rate, I'm running no additives in my 6 cylinder McKinnon. When/if it needs a valve job, I'll add hardened seats.

          quote:Originally posted by curt

          Some have told me to use a higher ocatane, like 89 vs. 87, will help the valves . I don't have a clue one way or the other. In the Kaiser Club the word was 4 oz of Marvel Mystry oil per fill up would prevent valve burning. I used a bardol product from Wall-Mart and never had any problems. I gather the Studebakers have a harder metal in the castings and that should help on recession in the seat area. For some reason I thought the Studebaker owners feel the valves were not a problem when just running regular fuel. Any one, what is the thought.
          ________________________
          Mark Anderson
          http://home.alltel.net/anderm
          1965 Studebaker Cruiser

          Comment


          • #6
            This explained everything. Thanks for the link!!

            quote:Originally posted by 65cruiser

            This was discussed at length here:

            http://www.studebakerdriversclub.com...archTerms=lead

            ________________________
            Mark Anderson
            http://home.alltel.net/anderm
            1965 Studebaker Cruiser
            63 R2 Avanti

            Comment


            • #7
              I've been driving Studebakers for thirty-five years, from 1933 models to 1963 models, and never added anything or used anything but regular gas and had no problems. I can't call that advice, only experience.
              "All attempts to 'rise above the issue' are simply an excuse to avoid it profitably." --Dick Gregory

              Brad Johnson, SDC since 1975, ASC since 1990
              Pine Grove Mills, Pa.
              sigpic'33 Rockne 10, '51 Commander Starlight, '53 Commander Starlight "Désirée"

              Comment


              • #8
                Years ago, when I was in Law School, I did a paper in Environmental Law concerning use of unleaded fuels in pre-1970-1975 cars (can't remember the exact date). I am looking for a copy of the paper, but can't find it in my mountains of "stuff".

                Anyway, the research I did indicated that tetraethylead ("lead") in gasoline provided a type of "coating" on the valve surface that acted as a cushion for the valve. Without lead in gasoline, the result would be serious valve recission. This is particularly true in engines used at high speed and under heavy use such as towing. Apparently the lead would also provide cushioning for some time after the discontinuation of use of leaded fuel. My research for the paper showed the results in photographs and writing of the failure to use leaded fuel in an engine designed for its use.

                At the time I was in law school, I was driving a 1950 Champion that I had put a replacement block I found, still in a crate and manufactured in 1963. When it was time to go home on Fridays, I would drive from Baton Rouge, LA to Alexandria, LA. Though the speed limit was only 55 mph, I would cruise at least at 70 mph... sometimes more! The car had overdrive, which was helpful. Leaded gasoline was outlawed about that time so I had to use unleaded fuel. It never skipped a beat and served me well after law school. Still have the car, but it needs a complete restoration after all these years... maybe one day!!

                All the other Studes I have/had are run on unleaded fuel, with no problem. So I accept the theory that Stude valves and seats used harder metal than do the other Brand X, which were the subject of the tests I used on my research.

                The answer... I DON'T KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                Laisez le bon temps roulez avec un Studebaker
                Laisez le bon temps roulez avec un Studebaker

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                • #9
                  The general opinion on Studebakers and unleaded fuel is that with few exceptions, it not a problem. If you have a truck and tow a traiier, maybe, but in normal use, I've never seen a problem.

                  Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
                  64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper)
                  63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
                  55 Speedster
                  50 2R 10 truck
                  JDP Maryland

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                  • #10
                    Hi Mike... havent seen your Hawk lately hows it coming? interesting comment on your "lead research" . Personally i'm not as concerned about lead content, as octane. the avanti r-2 runs so much better on 103 low lead than the readily available 92 no lead, i have "no choice"but to keep using it. I am due to pick up another barrel soon and will give you a call. Have a blast from the past...drive a STUDEBAKER.

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                    • #11
                      addition to previous comment: for some reason the octane boosters available just dont seem to do the trick. i've tried several brands, it just "aint" the same result. have fun gang.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        At the Co-Operator session at South Bend in '02, Carl Thom spoke on the subject of lead additive. His experience was of regringing one valve in an engine, driving the car to a midwestern Int'l Meet, and home again. That one valve, with new metal, had recessed about 1/4 inch, the other valves had not. His advice, if you grind the valve seats, use lead additive. If the seats have been run with leaded gas they don't need additive.

                        I put it in both my Studes, just in case.

                        Tom Bredehoft
                        '53 Commander Coupe
                        '60 Lark VI

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thats strange that a reground seat would be any different than the rest. I've tried the 104 octane boost and others and I haven't seen any difference either. They say that most octane booster is Tolulene anyway, and that can be bought at the store for $5 bucks a gallon. The R2 engine has such a lower compression than the R1 that I feel(after talking to Jon Meyer) it will be fine on 93 octane gas. Of course, if I plan on having fun and running up the rpm's, I'll wish I had the higher octane fuel as the supercharger will boost the compression.

                          63 R2 Avanti

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                          • #14
                            Correct answer, I know not, BUT; I have been told run higher Octane and there is no need for lead additives, I have also heard that if the engine ran on leaded gas there is no need for additives unless you regrind the seats. All hear say from good old car folks from past years.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Greetings all: I have been interested in this issue of valve recession due to no-lead gasoline for quite a number of years now and so it must be time to put my two cents worth in and get everyone mad at me. I must be the only one old enough (ha ha) to remember the days of Standard/Amoco no-lead high test gas. The common name, in my part of the country at least, was "white gas" (apparently no coloring was added to this gas and hence "white gas" was what it was called). Now Standard Oil sold this stuff by the tons and advertised it as better for the valves and plugs because the leaded gas tended to foul these two components. And nobody I ever talked to complained about excessive valve seat wear using "white gas". Now for the people today driving their Studes (or other old car--whatever) 20,000 miles or more each year might have cause for concern, but most of us in the hobby are not in that class. What am I missing guys? I've just never had that much of an issue with unleaded gas. As for missing the octane, in my R2 Avanti the only place for concern is a hard pull from low rpm--which is a no-no in anybody's book--at higher rpm and with the s'charger winding up and pressure raising the compression the engine is not working that hard what with my 3:70 gears. Not as hard as a hard pull from low revs--which is where you really have to be on the lookout for spark knock. Maybe I'm the one missing the boat, but what about the white gas of years gone by--it wasn't, certainly, the highest octane gas and probably only suitable up to about 10:1 compression, but valve seat wear? I dunno.
                              wagone and Avanti I

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