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  • #31
    quote:Originally posted by 60Lark

    I am new to this forum, but have owned Studebakers for years. I have a 1960 Lark VIII with the 259 engine. I replaced my Carter WCFB with an Edelbrock a while back and I thought I had it correct, but after reading this discussion, I am now confused. One of the posted statements was to connect the vacuum advance to the full port vacuum port which is the small vacuum port on the driver's side, another posted statement was that the vacuum advance should be conected to the full vacuum port, which is the vacuum port on the passenger side, and then another posted statement was that, with the electric choke no vacuum ports are to be used and all should be sealed, if this is the case, where does the vacuum advance go? Please help clear up my confusion. I also would like to ask another question, when I replaced my carb. I was instructed to install the 1406 / 600 cfm unit, which is the carb I installed on my Lark, which from what I have been reading was bad information, will the excessive amount of cfm create a problem?

    Confused,
    60Lark Phil
    Hey Phil. My stock 289 had a Carter AFB and the Edelbrock equivalent is the 500 cfm #1403 (I got the electric choke model). Several folks here referenced calculations that determined the right cfm, and I'd certainly take their word on it.

    As far as the hose hook-ups go, my vacuum advance is connected to the small front passenger side fitting. The large fitting to the right of it is capped, as is the small front driver's side fitting. PCV is connected to the large rear port (I had to buy a fitting). That's it for mine and a very knowledgable friend of mine has checked it out and believes it to be correct.

    I'm sure someone here will clear this up for you. Good luck.

    '63 Daytona Convertible

    Comment


    • #32
      Thanks for the help, It is much appreciated.

      Studebaker Fever
      60 Lark
      51 Champion
      Phil

      Studebaker Fever
      60 Lark
      56 Power Hawk
      Phil Hendrickson
      Arnold, Missouri

      Comment


      • #33
        Mike,

        I have a new #1406 600 cfm Edelbrock that is still in the box. I bought it to put on the R1 engine in my '63 Hawk. This is an original setup; it has the AFB that came with the R1 engine from the factory. I am still agonizing over the 500 or 600 cfm question. Based on the displacement, the 500 cfm is plenty (I don't run it at high RPM). Is there enough difference in the R1 over the stock 289 that it warrants use of the 600 cfm carb over the 500 cfm one?

        If I should go with the 500 cfm carb, where can I order one at a decent price? The local NAPA store charged me $279 for the #1406 carb which they stock. They do not stock the #1403 and want nearly $500 for it if they order it!

        Dale

        quote:Originally posted by Mike Van Veghten

        Jim,

        This is what will happen...
        You put on the 600 and it'll feel just fine. You'll play with the jetting and you may get it a bit better running and you'll be fairly happy.

        AND / OR

        You'll borrow a good 500 Carter / Edelbrock, put it on...and you'll say...yea, the smaller carburetor does work better, then you'll take the time to tune it properly...power will go up, drivability will go up and the milage will go up.

        Trust me....been playing with this stuff a long time. Some combinations you can go oversize on the carburetor...but as Tom said, this isn't one of them. The 500cfm carb. is a real good all around size for all but the highest powered Stude engines of ANY size.

        On one engine I had in a Chevy II...I played with spacers, just spacers. 1/2", 1", open, 4 hole.....months. People don't take the time to learn what does what and what "other" adjustments can be made that will effect the combination. Everything is a combination. You have to take the time to adjust everything "to each other" to get the most out of what you're playing with.

        In case you're wondering.........no..I don't have any hair!

        Comment


        • #34
          quote:Originally posted by blackhawk

          Mike,

          I have a new #1406 600 cfm Edelbrock that is still in the box. I bought it to put on the R1 engine in my '63 Hawk. This is an original setup; it has the AFB that came with the R1 engine from the factory. I am still agonizing over the 500 or 600 cfm question. Based on the displacement, the 500 cfm is plenty (I don't run it at high RPM). Is there enough difference in the R1 over the stock 289 that it warrants use of the 600 cfm carb over the 500 cfm one?

          If I should go with the 500 cfm carb, where can I order one at a decent price? The local NAPA store charged me $279 for the #1406 carb which they stock. They do not stock the #1403 and want nearly $500 for it if they order it!

          Dale
          I can't answer your cfm question with any degree of confidence, but I can tell you that I got my Edelbrock #1403 at my local Advance Auto Parts store for $299. NAPA has disappointed me lately, so I always check with AAP first. Good Luck.

          '63 Daytona Convertible

          Comment


          • #35
            quote:Originally posted by blackhawk

            Mike,

            I have a new #1406 600 cfm Edelbrock that is still in the box. I bought it to put on the R1 engine in my '63 Hawk. This is an original setup; it has the AFB that came with the R1 engine from the factory. I am still agonizing over the 500 or 600 cfm question. Based on the displacement, the 500 cfm is plenty (I don't run it at high RPM). Is there enough difference in the R1 over the stock 289 that it warrants use of the 600 cfm carb over the 500 cfm one?

            If I should go with the 500 cfm carb, where can I order one at a decent price? The local NAPA store charged me $279 for the #1406 carb which they stock. They do not stock the #1403 and want nearly $500 for it if they order it!

            Dale

            Haey Dale, sorry this has taken so long to answer for ya, been berry, berry busy. [)] In the quote you had where Mike was answering Jim, Mike said to use the 500, I firmly think he is correct. In fact, the formula for figuring CFM is right on, and a Stude V8 like yours will prefer a carb. that flows 450 but would be real happy with a 500 CFM too. NOW, that doesn't mean you can't slap that 600 CFM carb. on and dicker around with it until you're happy, because 95 tmes out of 100, a fella has to "dial in" any new carb., including the 500 CFM, to get the best results. The only thing is, with the 600 you'll have to get into it a bit more, changing jets and rods to dial it in, whereas the 500 will normally only require mixture and rpm screw adjustments.

            SO, bottom line, can you use the 600? Yes. Would it probably be better to take that 600 back and put a 500 on it to begin with? Yes. Does that make it any clearer? Also, last 500 I bought at my Auto Zone, about a month ago,(and I prefer the hand choke style), sold for $239.00.


            Sonny
            http://RacingStudebakers.com
            Sonny
            http://RacingStudebakers.com

            Comment


            • #36
              quote:Originally posted by PalmerGA

              D'OH!!!!

              Thanks for the additional info Sonny. I've only run the car for a few minutes since installing the new carb, so I doubt my dumb (ignorant, actually) stunt with the PCV hook-up did any harm. I got a hose connection today for the rear vacuum port to properly connect to the PCV, and a plug for the big port fitting in the front of the carb (which will now be unused). I was hoping I could just use the 1/4" plug that came with the carb, but the front fitting is pressed in... not threaded. Anyway, that should wrap it up.

              Given my lack of time and skill for timing/ignition matters, my buddy down the street is going to square away the timing/dwell and install the Petronix ignition THEN tune the new carb for me. It might be a week or so before I reply about how that goes. I'll be out of town next week when he does it, but I'll keep y'all posted.

              Thanks again for everything.

              '63 Daytona Convertible
              You're very welcome Jim. I'm sure that what little you ran the car would not foul 'er up. Glad to hear that you're going through the ignition too, that's the right way to do it. Thanks a million for keeping us posted!

              Sonny
              http://RacingStudebakers.com
              Sonny
              http://RacingStudebakers.com

              Comment


              • #37
                quote:Originally posted by PalmerGA

                quote:Originally posted by 60Lark

                I am new to this forum, but have owned Studebakers for years. I have a 1960 Lark VIII with the 259 engine. I replaced my Carter WCFB with an Edelbrock a while back and I thought I had it correct, but after reading this discussion, I am now confused. One of the posted statements was to connect the vacuum advance to the full port vacuum port which is the small vacuum port on the driver's side, another posted statement was that the vacuum advance should be conected to the full vacuum port, which is the vacuum port on the passenger side, and then another posted statement was that, with the electric choke no vacuum ports are to be used and all should be sealed, if this is the case, where does the vacuum advance go? Please help clear up my confusion. I also would like to ask another question, when I replaced my carb. I was instructed to install the 1406 / 600 cfm unit, which is the carb I installed on my Lark, which from what I have been reading was bad information, will the excessive amount of cfm create a problem?

                Confused,
                60Lark Phil
                Hey Phil. My stock 289 had a Carter AFB and the Edelbrock equivalent is the 500 cfm #1403 (I got the electric choke model). Several folks here referenced calculations that determined the right cfm, and I'd certainly take their word on it.

                As far as the hose hook-ups go, my vacuum advance is connected to the small front passenger side fitting. The large fitting to the right of it is capped, as is the small front driver's side fitting. PCV is connected to the large rear port (I had to buy a fitting). That's it for mine and a very knowledgable friend of mine has checked it out and believes it to be correct.

                I'm sure someone here will clear this up for you. Good luck.

                '63 Daytona Convertible
                This tickled the heck out'a me Jim. I LOVE it, this is what it's all about. You're right on as far as where the correct connections are. The thing that tickled me is that you got the information that you needed and passed it right on. It doesn't get better than that!

                Sonny
                http://RacingStudebakers.com
                Sonny
                http://RacingStudebakers.com

                Comment


                • #38
                  quote:Originally posted by 60Lark

                  I am new to this forum, but have owned Studebakers for years. I have a 1960 Lark VIII with the 259 engine. I replaced my Carter WCFB with an Edelbrock a while back and I thought I had it correct, but after reading this discussion, I am now confused. One of the posted statements was to connect the vacuum advance to the full port vacuum port which is the small vacuum port on the driver's side, another posted statement was that the vacuum advance should be conected to the full vacuum port, which is the vacuum port on the passenger side, and then another posted statement was that, with the electric choke no vacuum ports are to be used and all should be sealed, if this is the case, where does the vacuum advance go? Please help clear up my confusion. I also would like to ask another question, when I replaced my carb. I was instructed to install the 1406 / 600 cfm unit, which is the carb I installed on my Lark, which from what I have been reading was bad information, will the excessive amount of cfm create a problem?

                  Confused,
                  60Lark Phil
                  Phil, sorry that you were confused, but I can damn sure understand why! Jim Palmer gave you the right information as far as where to connect the vacuum lines on your carb.

                  As far as the 500/600 CFM question, using the 600 CFM carb. will NOT hurt anything, just mebbe a slight loss of performance and fuel mileage if you decide not to try to dial it in. The 600 is a bit of over-kill, BUT, you can tune it in, it just takes a bit more work.

                  It is NOT as hard as it sounds, especially when working on the Edelbrock. You're trying to lean the mixtures out a bit, but not too much. All 4 jets and 2 primary step-up rods in the 600 are larger than the 500 to compensate for the higher air flow, so you want to reduce the fuel going into the carb. throats, but not so much that the car "bogs down" when you try to accelerate. If you get bogged down yourself with tuning in that 600, we can help ya out right here.

                  Take your time, and after you change components, when you drive the car, (and I would drive it for at least a couple of days or so after I changed things), carefully note the changes in performance from idle to wide open throttle. If you're getting better performance, it follows that the fuel mileage should increase too.

                  Please let us know how it goes.....


                  Sonny
                  http://RacingStudebakers.com
                  Sonny
                  http://RacingStudebakers.com

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Thanks for the info, when I first put the 600 cfm on and tuned it in it ran great, far better than the WCFB. I drove it a copule hundred miles, with no problem, but this past week-end it was running crappy, didn't make any difference what I did. I already have converted to the Protonix breakerless ignition, I got tired of fuel pump diaphrams leaking and replaced with an electric fuel pump about 3 years ago. This evening after work, I installed a fuel pressure gauge just before the carb. and I believe I found my problem, with the engine cold I only had 3 psi fuel pressure and as the engine warmed up it drop to almost zero, I knew the gas tank was low so I took it and filled it up, but still had almost no fuel pressure, then I removed the fuel pressure regulator to see if that was the problem, but still no fuel pressure, so unless the new fuel pressure gage is messed up I need a new fuel pump AGAIN.

                    Studebaker Fever
                    60 Lark
                    51 Champion
                    Phil

                    Studebaker Fever
                    60 Lark
                    56 Power Hawk
                    Phil Hendrickson
                    Arnold, Missouri

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      quote:Originally posted by 60Lark

                      Thanks for the info, when I first put the 600 cfm on and tuned it in it ran great, far better than the WCFB. I drove it a copule hundred miles, with no problem, but this past week-end it was running crappy, didn't make any difference what I did. I already have converted to the Protonix breakerless ignition, I got tired of fuel pump diaphrams leaking and replaced with an electric fuel pump about 3 years ago. This evening after work, I installed a fuel pressure gauge just before the carb. and I believe I found my problem, with the engine cold I only had 3 psi fuel pressure and as the engine warmed up it drop to almost zero, I knew the gas tank was low so I took it and filled it up, but still had almost no fuel pressure, then I removed the fuel pressure regulator to see if that was the problem, but still no fuel pressure, so unless the new fuel pressure gage is messed up I need a new fuel pump AGAIN.

                      Studebaker Fever
                      60 Lark
                      51 Champion
                      Phil
                      You're very welcome Phil! As for that electric fuel pump, I know exactly what you mean, I would trust the fuel pressure gauge. In fact, it's even kind of funny that you brought it up. I just had about the same problem on my big Furd, 1 ton truck. New 1406, new elec. fuel pump, new filter system under the truck, new lines, new tank switch-over valve, etc.. Anyway, that elec. pump chitt the bed about three weeks after I put the danged thing in! Good news is that it was in warranty, bad news is my truck ran bad, I had to troubleshoot my butt off to figure out what the problem was, (couldn't be that NEW pump right?), I had to get under the truck, change it and drive back and forth to the parts store to exchange it. One fuel pump, $85.00, the ball busting aggravation you have to go through even when you spend the big money for the best parts.... priceless...... [8] The $39.00 pumps I buy last forever!

                      Sonny
                      http://RacingStudebakers.com
                      Sonny
                      http://RacingStudebakers.com

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Well, I am going to get one of the $40.00 electric fuel pumps and replace the entire fuel line just in case as well. I already have the money invested in the new 600 cfm carb. But I think I know someone that has a professionally rebuilt 500 cfm Edelbrock that I am going to see if I can get, if it works out then I will unload the 600, But before this fuel pump problem, I think I had it running pretty good, the Lark definately performed better than it did with the WCFB, it had a lot more get up and go. These nagging little problems are a pain but when the Lark is running good it is fun to tool around getting thumbs up from so many of the people that see her. I just got a new digetal camera, when I figure out how to get pictures onto this forum I will try to send some pictures.

                        Studebaker Fever
                        60 Lark
                        51 Champion
                        Phil

                        Studebaker Fever
                        60 Lark
                        56 Power Hawk
                        Phil Hendrickson
                        Arnold, Missouri

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          quote:Originally posted by Sonny

                          quote:Originally posted by blackhawk

                          Mike,

                          I have a new #1406 600 cfm Edelbrock that is still in the box. I bought it to put on the R1 engine in my '63 Hawk. This is an original setup; it has the AFB that came with the R1 engine from the factory. I am still agonizing over the 500 or 600 cfm question. Based on the displacement, the 500 cfm is plenty (I don't run it at high RPM). Is there enough difference in the R1 over the stock 289 that it warrants use of the 600 cfm carb over the 500 cfm one?

                          If I should go with the 500 cfm carb, where can I order one at a decent price? The local NAPA store charged me $279 for the #1406 carb which they stock. They do not stock the #1403 and want nearly $500 for it if they order it!

                          Dale

                          Haey Dale, sorry this has taken so long to answer for ya, been berry, berry busy. [)] In the quote you had where Mike was answering Jim, Mike said to use the 500, I firmly think he is correct. In fact, the formula for figuring CFM is right on, and a Stude V8 like yours will prefer a carb. that flows 450 but would be real happy with a 500 CFM too. NOW, that doesn't mean you can't slap that 600 CFM carb. on and dicker around with it until you're happy, because 95 tmes out of 100, a fella has to "dial in" any new carb., including the 500 CFM, to get the best results. The only thing is, with the 600 you'll have to get into it a bit more, changing jets and rods to dial it in, whereas the 500 will normally only require mixture and rpm screw adjustments.

                          SO, bottom line, can you use the 600? Yes. Would it probably be better to take that 600 back and put a 500 on it to begin with? Yes. Does that make it any clearer? Also, last 500 I bought at my Auto Zone, about a month ago,(and I prefer the hand choke style), sold for $239.00.


                          Sonny
                          http://RacingStudebakers.com
                          Thanks Sonny. I am going to return the 600 and buy a 500. We don't have an Auto Zone; not much choice in parts stores. I see where Summit Racing has the 1403 for 4279. Do you know of any other online sources for these carbs?

                          Dale

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            quote:Originally posted by PalmerGA

                            quote:Originally posted by blackhawk

                            Mike,

                            I have a new #1406 600 cfm Edelbrock that is still in the box. I bought it to put on the R1 engine in my '63 Hawk. This is an original setup; it has the AFB that came with the R1 engine from the factory. I am still agonizing over the 500 or 600 cfm question. Based on the displacement, the 500 cfm is plenty (I don't run it at high RPM). Is there enough difference in the R1 over the stock 289 that it warrants use of the 600 cfm carb over the 500 cfm one?

                            If I should go with the 500 cfm carb, where can I order one at a decent price? The local NAPA store charged me $279 for the #1406 carb which they stock. They do not stock the #1403 and want nearly $500 for it if they order it!

                            Dale
                            I can't answer your cfm question with any degree of confidence, but I can tell you that I got my Edelbrock #1403 at my local Advance Auto Parts store for $299. NAPA has disappointed me lately, so I always check with AAP first. Good Luck.

                            '63 Daytona Convertible
                            Thanks, but that chain does not have an outlet here. I am checking for sources online. Summit has one for $279.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              quote:Originally posted by blackhawk

                              quote:Originally posted by Sonny

                              quote:Originally posted by blackhawk

                              Mike,

                              I have a new #1406 600 cfm Edelbrock that is still in the box. I bought it to put on the R1 engine in my '63 Hawk. This is an original setup; it has the AFB that came with the R1 engine from the factory. I am still agonizing over the 500 or 600 cfm question. Based on the displacement, the 500 cfm is plenty (I don't run it at high RPM). Is there enough difference in the R1 over the stock 289 that it warrants use of the 600 cfm carb over the 500 cfm one?

                              If I should go with the 500 cfm carb, where can I order one at a decent price? The local NAPA store charged me $279 for the #1406 carb which they stock. They do not stock the #1403 and want nearly $500 for it if they order it!

                              Dale

                              Haey Dale, sorry this has taken so long to answer for ya, been berry, berry busy. [)] In the quote you had where Mike was answering Jim, Mike said to use the 500, I firmly think he is correct. In fact, the formula for figuring CFM is right on, and a Stude V8 like yours will prefer a carb. that flows 450 but would be real happy with a 500 CFM too. NOW, that doesn't mean you can't slap that 600 CFM carb. on and dicker around with it until you're happy, because 95 tmes out of 100, a fella has to "dial in" any new carb., including the 500 CFM, to get the best results. The only thing is, with the 600 you'll have to get into it a bit more, changing jets and rods to dial it in, whereas the 500 will normally only require mixture and rpm screw adjustments.

                              SO, bottom line, can you use the 600? Yes. Would it probably be better to take that 600 back and put a 500 on it to begin with? Yes. Does that make it any clearer? Also, last 500 I bought at my Auto Zone, about a month ago,(and I prefer the hand choke style), sold for $239.00.


                              Sonny
                              http://RacingStudebakers.com
                              Thanks Sonny. I am going to return the 600 and buy a 500. We don't have an Auto Zone; not much choice in parts stores. I see where Summit Racing has the 1403 for 4279. Do you know of any other online sources for these carbs?

                              Dale
                              You're very welcome Dale. I'm pretty sure that all of the major parts houses have websites. I know Advaned Auto, Pep Boys, Auto Zone, etc., all have websites and I'd definitely check with them first.

                              Sonny
                              http://RacingStudebakers.com
                              Sonny
                              http://RacingStudebakers.com

                              Comment

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