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4bbl manifold?

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  • 4bbl manifold?

    Got my hands on an old "total performance" book and one thing I gleaned from it was that the author did not think very much of the later 4bbl manifolds and seemed to think that the early, tall WCFB manifolds actually flowed better. Anyone have any experience and care to confirm/deny these allegations? Anyone run a WCFB manifold and made it work with an AFB? how difficult would that be to do?

    thanks,

    nate

    --
    62 Daytona hartop
    64 Daytona convertible (in boxes)
    http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

  • #2
    Nate,
    Dick Datson's performance books discuss this very same issue. Many believe the intake manifold to be one of the weakest links on a late model V8. The later manifold's runners have very little rise to them which can't help much when it comes to fuel flow. I've noticed that the manifolds on the 232's I have seem to be a much better design as the runners are more ram-like. Only problem is they are 2-barrel and have small 232 ports. I have an Offenhauser 4 barrel manifold with the WCFB pattern and it looks like it wouldn't be too hard to modify for use with an AFB. I know some others have had success using an AFB on the WCFB manifolds by using a universal carb adapter/spacer plate. Since most of the earlier manifolds are 2-barrel could they be converted to 4-barrel? I know there are a few people out there now offering this service. I guess the only other issue is the difference in port sizes between the 232 and 259/289 heads. I have decided to leave my Offenhauser alone because it has the smaller 232 ports and have instead decided to go with a Mopar conversion. There is a lot of great info in Dick's books and I highly reccomend them to anyone interested in Studebaker performance. He lists them on Ebay from time to time. -Will

    Comment


    • #3
      I am currently selling 4 bbl manifolds that were modified from 2bbl cores. While they are fairly low profile, they are still dual plane. These are port matched and the plenum to runner edge has been radiused to smooth the transition out. They are machined to accept an AFB without any adapters. Great help if you have an Avanti or early C/K and have hood clearance issues,

      The older WCFB 4 bbl manifold is not much different than the later 4 bbl manifold, runner wise. I have cut them apart to compare.

      The Offy manifold has very small runners and opening up the carb base bores does not help much if you are running anything more than a 500cfm carb, and even then you would need an adapter. I can machine an adapter plate that is only 5/16" thick to accept a small AFB baseplate. The Offy also has no equalizer passages, but these are fairly easy to add.

      Several pic's of these modified 4bbl manifolds are at:
      http://community.webshots.com/album/169539546yHBuvB

      Hope the info is useable.
      Contact me if you want more info on these 4 bbl manifolds.
      The price is fair, and they are in stock, ready to go.
      Jeff Rice[8D]
      DEEPNHOCK@worldnet.att.net





      quote:Originally posted by wcarroll@outrageous.net

      Nate,
      Dick Datson's performance books discuss this very same issue. Many believe the intake manifold to be one of the weakest links on a late model V8. The later manifold's runners have very little rise to them which can't help much when it comes to fuel flow. I've noticed that the manifolds on the 232's I have seem to be a much better design as the runners are more ram-like. Only problem is they are 2-barrel and have small 232 ports. I have an Offenhauser 4 barrel manifold with the WCFB pattern and it looks like it wouldn't be too hard to modify for use with an AFB. I know some others have had success using an AFB on the WCFB manifolds by using a universal carb adapter/spacer plate. Since most of the earlier manifolds are 2-barrel could they be converted to 4-barrel? I know there are a few people out there now offering this service. I guess the only other issue is the difference in port sizes between the 232 and 259/289 heads. I have decided to leave my Offenhauser alone because it has the smaller 232 ports and have instead decided to go with a Mopar conversion. There is a lot of great info in Dick's books and I highly reccomend them to anyone interested in Studebaker performance. He lists them on Ebay from time to time. -Will
      DEEPNHOCK@worldnet.att.net
      '61 Hawk
      '37 Coupe Express
      http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock
      HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

      Jeff


      Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



      Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

      Comment


      • #4
        Jeff,
        Have you tried modifying the early 2bbl 232 taller intakes for 4bbl 259/289 use? Is it even possible with the way they were casted? -Will

        Comment


        • #5
          I have had two requests to try that.
          I'll try to run up to Stephen Cade's and scrounge one to see if it is possible. I don't really think so, as there doesn't look to be enough material...But you never know until you try....
          I'll let you know.
          Jeff[8D]




          quote:Originally posted by wcarroll@outrageous.net

          Jeff,
          Have you tried modifying the early 2bbl 232 taller intakes for 4bbl 259/289 use? Is it even possible with the way they were casted? -Will
          DEEPNHOCK@worldnet.att.net
          '61 Hawk
          '37 Coupe Express
          http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock
          HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

          Jeff


          Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



          Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

          Comment


          • #6
            Hey Jeff, what might you charge to modify my Offy for AFB use? I would be interested in having you do the same modifications that you have performed on your own as documented in your website pics. Thanks-Will

            Comment


            • #7
              I don't think that the Offy manifolc *can* be modified to use an AFB without a spacer - there just isn't enough meat on the pad to have anywhere to put the studs.

              Now if a spacer doesn't bother you - looks like you can open up the holes for the carb to AFB size if you want, but I'm not sure abour opening up the runners to match the heads, whether or not that's a viable idea.

              nate

              --
              62 Daytona hartop
              64 Daytona convertible (in boxes)
              http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
              --
              55 Commander Starlight
              http://members.cox.net/njnagel

              Comment


              • #8
                Sure can Will.
                Here's some pic's of my Offy manifold getting modified.
                http://community.webshots.com/album/237102393dLhvsq
                Only difference will be that the carb mount plate is going to be a solid piece of aluminum, and not a cheesy flexible cast carb adapter (like in the picture). I used that for alignment purposes. I am going to make a 1/2" (or thicker) plate that will use the original threaded holes with countersunk Allen head stainless bolts to hold the plate to the manifold.

                I can do yours too. I am going to get enough aluminum to make ten or so plates, so other Offy manifold guys can do this.

                One thing I would seriously look at though is port matching the manifold. This manifold was designed for a smaller displacement engine and the runners in the manifold are pretty small. Great for crisp, low rpm stuff. Port matching, and some plending, especially in the plenum transition area, should really help.

                Send it to me and I'll do it up for you. Ask Sonny how reasonable I can be, and how good the work is. Ought to be able to do it all for around a hundred bucks or so. I don't need to get rich off cheap ass'd Stude guys, now do I? <lol>
                Jeff[8D]




                quote:Originally posted by wcarroll@outrageous.net

                Hey Jeff, what might you charge to modify my Offy for AFB use? I would be interested in having you do the same modifications that you have performed on your own as documented in your website pics. Thanks-Will
                DEEPNHOCK@worldnet.att.net
                '61 Hawk
                '37 Coupe Express
                http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock
                HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

                Jeff


                Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



                Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

                Comment


                • #9
                  I can say that Jeff did a nice job on my manifold. [^] I trusted him with my two-duce manifold, and he didn't disappoint me. He has pictures of it on his webshots site. Oh, price was very right. Thanks again Jeff!

                  Sonny
                  http://RacingStudebakers.com
                  Sonny
                  http://RacingStudebakers.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hey guys, what function does the tapped and plugged hole in the bottom-center of the manifold serve? -Will

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hey Jeff,

                      I like the pics of that Offy manifold you modified... just one suggestion - would it be possible to put a little "tab" on the back of your spacer/adapter plate to provide a coil mount? (I just threw the Offy on my '62 and made a quick and dirty mount to bolt onto the adapter plate, I can take pics next weekend if you aren't visualizing it)

                      Also, just curious, how much smaller *are* the runners than, say, a stock 289 manifold? I like the lack of a reverse curve of the Offy but if it kills flow...

                      thanks

                      nate

                      --
                      62 Daytona hartop
                      64 Daytona convertible (in boxes)
                      http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
                      --
                      55 Commander Starlight
                      http://members.cox.net/njnagel

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        quote:Originally posted by wcarroll@outrageous.net

                        Hey guys, what function does the tapped and plugged hole in the bottom-center of the manifold serve? -Will
                        That was to make sure the manifold has internal flow balance Will. If the carbs weren't balanced, and if one carb was running real lean, it would burn valves very easily.

                        Sonny
                        http://RacingStudebakers.com
                        Sonny
                        http://RacingStudebakers.com

                        Comment


                        • #13

                          Adding an extension like that would be real easy.
                          It could still be off to one side 'close' to where the stock coil was.... or anyplace you want it to be...
                          The port runners look to be a tad smaller than the stock Stude cast iron manifold. I didn't measure them, but if I can see it, it must be there <g>... I guess I could block off each runner and fill them with water and compare the volumes.... but why bother?
                          Jeff[8D]



                          [quote]Originally posted by N8N

                          Hey Jeff,

                          I like the pics of that Offy manifold you modified... just one suggestion - would it be possible to put a little "tab" on the back of your spacer/adapter plate to provide a coil mount? (I just threw the Offy on my '62 and made a quick and dirty mount to bolt onto the adapter plate, I can take pics next weekend if you aren't visualizing it)

                          Also, just curious, how much smaller *are* the runners than, say, a stock 289 manifold? I like the lack of a reverse curve of the Offy but if it kills flow...




                          DEEPNHOCK@worldnet.att.net
                          '61 Hawk
                          '37 Coupe Express
                          http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock
                          HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

                          Jeff


                          Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



                          Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I just built up one that I had laying around.
                            Pic's are at: <http://community.webshots.com/album/237102393dLhvsq>
                            Polished it up pretty.
                            Anyone that wants to do that must be nuts <boseg>...
                            But shiny is good!
                            Jeff[8D]




                            quote:Originally posted by N8N

                            I don't think that the Offy manifolc *can* be modified to use an AFB without a spacer - there just isn't enough meat on the pad to have anywhere to put the studs.

                            Now if a spacer doesn't bother you - looks like you can open up the holes for the carb to AFB size if you want, but I'm not sure abour opening up the runners to match the heads, whether or not that's a viable idea.

                            nate

                            --
                            62 Daytona hartop
                            64 Daytona convertible (in boxes)
                            http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel



                            DEEPNHOCK@worldnet.att.net
                            '61 Hawk
                            '37 Coupe Express
                            http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock
                            HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

                            Jeff


                            Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



                            Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I guess small runners are actually good, so long as they're not *too* much smaller than a 289 head port... didn't think to look when my Offy wasn't installed on the engine...

                              nate

                              --
                              62 Daytona hartop
                              64 Daytona convertible (in boxes)
                              http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
                              --
                              55 Commander Starlight
                              http://members.cox.net/njnagel

                              Comment

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