Partial Flow Oil Change

[Rekabeduts]

How many quarts of oil should I put into a partial flow 289? I understand that about half a quart stays in, so I'm guessing 4 1/2 qts go in after I've drained all that's coming out.

thanks

[DEEPNHOCK]

Just put in 5 quarts.
The partial flow oil filter is mostly cosmetic and just an visual feel-good item for owners desiring longer service intervals (in the fifties).
Skip all the additives, and just change the oil like clockwork.
Remember, it is harder on the engine if you don't run it often and to FULL temperature for a good hour...regularly.
The less you run the car, the sooner you should change the oil.
Oil is cheap. Crankshafts and bearings aren't cheap.
Jeff[8D]

DEEPNHOCK@worldnet.att.net
'61 Hawk
'37 Coupe Express

http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

[N8N]

well...

As usual, I'm going to be an argumentative cuss and disagree. IF (and this is, of course, a big if) your engine is in good shape and clean inside, the partial flow filter is a perfectly good filtering system. The only advantage to the full flow setup is that it provides a "safety net" should any big chunks of crap make their way through the pickup screen and oil pump. Theoretically, the partial flow setup can provide *better* filtration than the full flow, but I do not know if there are any cartridges available with media any finer than that used in the full flow jobs. I have my suspicions that the partial flow filters that you buy from the parts store use the exact same media as the full flow ones (20 microns or so.) Now if you could get an element rated for a smaller particulate size, say 8 microns give or take, that would be a valuable addition to any engine. Supposedly the "Frantz" type TP filters will do that, but there is just something about hanging a roll of TP in one's engine bay that seems somehow wrong to me. I sure wouldn't mind if someone came out with a depth-type replacement for a Fram C4 cartridge though, but that's neither here nor there - I don't think any have been made for years.

That said, the right answer to the question is "however much oil it takes to reach the 'full' mark on the dipstick after running the engine until the oil filter is full, shutting it down, and letting it sit for a minute or so." Not a very exact answer, to be sure, but the right one <G> Probably depends on what kind of filter we are talking about as well, the F4 type or the spin-on type... I imagine the F4 filter would hold a smidge more than the spin-on...

nate

[MarkC]

Nate, while I'm with you on the theoreticals (that is, that a partial-flow system can provide better filtration of oil if finer media is available), I can't agree based on the realities that the flow through the partial-flow system in question is comparatively low, less than 30% of the full-flow system, and not all of the oil is positively subjected to the media. But then, full-flow systems can't be held in overly high regard either as they're no better than partial flow under high pressure conditions (especially cold starts) when the bypass valves are forced open, bypassing the media completely. Perfection in filtration is evasive, but I'd much rather have either than neither.

MarkC

MarkC, 64 Y8
Working in Spokane, WA

[DEEPNHOCK]

Just to be double argumentative (huh?)....

How can a partial flow filter get 30%?
It is going to be supplied with whatever goes up that passageway to the head. Any big chunks are going to flow with the fast branch and it would be hard for them to 'find' that particular passageway.
While I wil admit that any filtering is better than no filtering, but how much filtering is going to be done on a passageway that has as it's last fitting a .080" orofice?
I know the answer... Not very much.
Just like a lawnmower....change the oil at regular intervals and don't rely on the filter to do much more than make you feel like a good consumer.
Jeff[8D]





[quote]Originally posted by N8N

well...
As usual, I'm going to be an argumentative cuss and disagree.
<snip>

DEEPNHOCK@worldnet.att.net
'61 Hawk
'37 Coupe Express

http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

[Rekabeduts]

I'm on my last FRAM PB50 partial flow oil filter. Any one know where to get those? All Stude Int has any more is some Purolator that are very rusty from sitting in water somewhere.

Also, I'm using Rotella 15W-40 (in south Florida) rather than the 20W50 I used last. Anyone have an opinion on which is best for a never re-built 289? (15W-40 or 20W-50?)

[Transtar60]

Tractor Supply CO or NAPA will have PB50 or PB50 equivalents.
Used on many pieces of industrial equipment and farm equipment.

http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/results.asp?PartNo=PB50&Submit=Search

[N8N]

Look at the interchange sheet on my web site there are numbers for several mfgrs. I know that Wix, Hastings, and Fram are all still available, and I think Purolator as well - you might have to special order them though if your store doesn't have them in stock.

http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

good luck

nate

--
62 Daytona hartop
64 Daytona convertible (in boxes)

http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

[Roscomacaw]

How illogical is it to consider filtering the oil on the suction side of the pump?
I know that there's been a way worked out to turn an early Stude V8 into a full flo, but it involves some goofy plumbing and drilling and tapping the block to some degree.[xx(]
I've wondered tho, if one couldn't modify an oil pan to where a spin-on filter would mount to the side of the pan sump. The pickup tube/head would go to the spin-on filter and a braided flex line would end with a flare fitting that would be attached to the rear main cap's oil passage.
You could get away with a little filter cartridge like new cars use. This would minimalize the problem of interfering with engine room clutter.
If it's low enough on the sump, it'd be full of oil for startup - so what's to prevent doing this?[?]

Miscreant at large.

[Mike]

It's temping to install a filter on the inlet of the oil pump, because the plumbing would be simple. But, supposedly, it's a very bad idea to restrict the inlet of the pump in any way. There's some good information on Gene Berg's VW site about full flow systems. He says even the inlet screen can be a problem.
The bypass system, on Studes, isn't such a bad idea. The return, on a stock setup, provides extra oil to the timing gears, fuel pump, and maybe the crankshaft thrust bearing. There are a few places to pick up oil under pressure; and lines can be small diameter.
Mike

[DEEPNHOCK]

If it has an OE fiber cam gear, I'd run the 15W-40.
No sense stressing good parts that are comfortable.
Oh, and CLEAN THE RELIEF VALVE!
This should be an annual thing on all Stude V8's.
The AC filter number is a P-3.
Hope the info helps.
Jeff[8D]

quote:Originally posted by Rekabeduts

I'm on my last FRAM PB50 partial flow oil filter. Any one know where to get those? All Stude Int has any more is some Purolator that are very rusty from sitting in water somewhere.

Also, I'm using Rotella 15W-40 (in south Florida) rather than the 20W50 I used last. Anyone have an opinion on which is best for a never re-built 289? (15W-40 or 20W-50?)

DEEPNHOCK@worldnet.att.net
'61 Hawk
'37 Coupe Express

http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

[Rekabeduts]

The oil needs to be changed anyway, and the car hasn't been started in almost 3 months due to not dealing with that starter issues until now. Should I change the oil before trying to start the car again, or get it started, let it run some, then change it. The oil is really not dirty at all, maybe 1500 miles since the last change, but it's been almost a year now.

Hank

[Sonny]

Get it started Hank. You always want to change oil when the engine is warm.

Sonny

http://RacingStudebakers.com

[DEEPNHOCK]

I remember in the good ol' days when the standard procedure was to take the oul pump screen and fill the pickup with gas and light it to burn the sludge off the screen.

Jeez, the stuff we used to do <lol>...

I have a 289 in my shop that I modified years ago to filter ALL the oil that went up into the heads and lubed the rocker shafts with filtered oil. All the oil that ran back down into the block was filtered. Pretty easy to do, although the plumbing looked wierd. I put shut off valves and pressure gauges to check what was going on.
Shimmed the bypass valve... Used to shut off the rocker shafts at the drag strip (keep all the oil downstairs, where it was needed).
Never hurt the engine, even though I blew an oil filter off once, before I figured out that the valves only needed to be opened a little bit (What a mess <gg&gt. Not as good as a full flow, but a lot better than the OE setup.
Jeff[8D]

quote:Originally posted by Mike

It's temping to install a filter on the inlet of the oil pump, because the plumbing would be simple. But, supposedly, it's a very bad idea to restrict the inlet of the pump in any way. There's some good information on Gene Berg's VW site about full flow systems. He says even the inlet screen can be a problem.
The bypass system, on Studes, isn't such a bad idea. The return, on a stock setup, provides extra oil to the timing gears, fuel pump, and maybe the crankshaft thrust bearing. There are a few places to pick up oil under pressure; and lines can be small diameter.
Mike

DEEPNHOCK@worldnet.att.net
'61 Hawk
'37 Coupe Express

http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

[Rekabeduts]

What is the best way to get to and clean the oil relief valve on a GT Hawk? I'll be changing my partial flow 289'd oil soon, and I'm really not sure of the last time the relief valve was cleaned, although I think it was about 2 or 3 years ago. My oil pressure starts out at about 75, then drops to 55-60 when warmed up, and about 45 when idling. I don't really know if the oil pressure is any indication of how dirty or clogged it may be. I have had the oil changed about every 1,500 miles, which is about once a year, and am going to do my own oil changes now.

Thanks.