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Oil cooler on a 1960 289 V8

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  • Oil cooler on a 1960 289 V8

    Is it possible to put an engine oil cooler on a 1960 289 V8? I am finishing up the installation of a complete Supercharger setup (off of a 57 Golden Hawk) and while hooking up the oil filter unit on the back of the air box was thinking that with the extra power I might have to cool the oil. Since this engine is not the full flow block I am not sure if this is possible and if it is where can I hook up the oil lines. If it was full flow I could use an adapter under the spin on oil filter. Now if I could get the body work to go as smooth as the engine and the other mechanical work I will be driving the Hawk on the autobahn this summer. Thanks for any input Harry

  • #2
    If there WAS a full-flo access tap on these earlier engines, there'd be ALOT more of them that would sport full-flo filters. But that's why there's only PARTIAL-FLO filters on them.

    There ARE ways you can drill and tap into an early variant and install clunky pipe & fittings to direct the oil thru a filter before it goes into the engine's arteries - but you have to do this from the start - with a bare block. And of course, still, it's clunky by my standards.[xx(]

    Miscreant adrift in
    the BerStuda Triangle


    1957 Transtar 1/2ton
    1960 Larkvertible V8
    1958 Provincial wagon
    1953 Commander coupe

    No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

    Comment


    • #3
      FWIW, not that it helps the original poster, but instead of using a "sandwich" adapter and running into issues with oil filter to downpipe clearance, Jon Myer sells an aluminum block that bolts in place of the full flow spin on filter mount that provides AN fittings so you can run a remote filter and also an external oil cooler.

      I would highly recommend either using an oil-to-water cooler or else putting a thermostatic valve in line with an oil-to-air cooler (unless your application is a race-only engine that is only ever going to be run at WOT.) There's no need to cool the oil below 200 degrees or so, and there's good reasons not to. Volkswagen used an oil-to-water sandwich cooler as standard on many models and not only does it lower the oil temps, it actually helps the engine warm up faster in cold weather.

      nate

      --
      55 Commander Starlight
      http://members.cox.net/njnagel
      --
      55 Commander Starlight
      http://members.cox.net/njnagel

      Comment


      • #4
        Don't waste your time.
        Put it together right,make sure the brakes work, jam a 3.07 gear in it, and drive the snot out of it.
        It can handle anything the Autobahn can offer
        Jeff[8D]


        quote:Originally posted by messerschmittfan

        Is it possible to put an engine oil cooler on a 1960 289 V8? I am finishing up the installation of a complete Supercharger setup (off of a 57 Golden Hawk) and while hooking up the oil filter unit on the back of the air box was thinking that with the extra power I might have to cool the oil. Since this engine is not the full flow block I am not sure if this is possible and if it is where can I hook up the oil lines. If it was full flow I could use an adapter under the spin on oil filter. Now if I could get the body work to go as smooth as the engine and the other mechanical work I will be driving the Hawk on the autobahn this summer. Thanks for any input Harry


        DEEPNHOCK at Gmail.com
        Brooklet, Georgia
        '37 Coupe Express (never ending project)
        '37 Coupe Express Trailer (project)
        '61 Hawk (project)
        http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

        HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

        Jeff


        Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



        Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

        Comment


        • #5
          Way OT, but I was noticing the OP's name b/c I too get a kick out of those freaky little Messers!

          Don't think I'll ever buy one- got enough on my plate learning all about Studes!

          Robert K. Andrews Owner- IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
          Parish, central NY 13131
          http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2358680/1

          Comment


          • #6
            Well, Jeff's spot on. It AIN'T some dainty european trinketry. And note also that the factory didn't bother to cool the auto transes unless they were slated for HEAVY DUTY operation and at that I think it was more hype than necessity.[:0]
            When you think about it, the V8s served in cars AND trucks for 11 years before Stude decided to go full-flo and I'd bet it was only an attempt to match competitor's engines than something they viewed as a fix!

            Miscreant adrift in
            the BerStuda Triangle


            1957 Transtar 1/2ton
            1960 Larkvertible V8
            1958 Provincial wagon
            1953 Commander coupe

            No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

            Comment


            • #7
              I dunno, if I were going to drive it on the autobahn, I'd probably add some extra cooling. That is only because I know myself; I'd have my foot pasted to the floor for as long as I could get away with it.

              nate

              --
              55 Commander Starlight
              http://members.cox.net/njnagel
              --
              55 Commander Starlight
              http://members.cox.net/njnagel

              Comment


              • #8
                Weld some lengths of tubing to the bottom of the oil pan.

                Miscreant adrift in
                the BerStuda Triangle


                1957 Transtar 1/2ton
                1960 Larkvertible V8
                1958 Provincial wagon
                1953 Commander coupe

                No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I don't know if you're serious or not; I've seen deep auto trans pans sold with tubes welded through them for just that reason. I think Derale makes them?

                  Personally, I think a nice finned aluminum oil pan would be a nice touch. Unfortunately nobody has seen fit to make one for a Stude yet If anyone needs someone to test fit one though, I'm your man - I've already got just about every other shiny engine goodie.

                  nate

                  --
                  55 Commander Starlight
                  http://members.cox.net/njnagel
                  --
                  55 Commander Starlight
                  http://members.cox.net/njnagel

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    NO, I was semi-serious. I've read where someone did that. As to your ribbed aluminum, that would be pretty - but for pure function the tubes or even flat vanes would help dissipate heat![}]

                    Miscreant adrift in
                    the BerStuda Triangle


                    1957 Transtar 1/2ton
                    1960 Larkvertible V8
                    1958 Provincial wagon
                    1953 Commander coupe

                    No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Nate...Nate...Nate....
                      I have a polished aluminum oil pan and a polished aluminum trans pan on the Yellow POS, and you will never go down there to wipe it off and shine it up.... (Only an anal-retentive person would do that[:0])..
                      Oh...wait... Never mind
                      Jeff[8D]



                      quote:Originally posted by N8N
                      Personally, I think a nice finned aluminum oil pan would be a nice touch. Unfortunately nobody has seen fit to make one for a Stude yet If anyone needs someone to test fit one though, I'm your man - I've already got just about every other shiny engine goodie.


                      DEEPNHOCK at Gmail.com
                      Brooklet, Georgia
                      '37 Coupe Express (never ending project)
                      '37 Coupe Express Trailer (project)
                      '61 Hawk (project)
                      http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

                      HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

                      Jeff


                      Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



                      Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        This is something that I have wondered about for years. The oil pan on a partial flow filtered engine, and a full flow engine are the same. With about one quart of oil in the filter, would not the full flow engine be OK with 6 quarts of oil in them? I used to do this, and did not have a prob. But something would have to be different, like the dipsticks. Maybe I am overanalyzing, in thinking that at rest, a partial flow filter being upside down, would drain back into the engine.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'm not sure about the spin-on ones, but the Fram F4 canister type filters would not drain down with the engine off because the lower fitting actually opened up into the tube that goes up through the middle of the filter, and the hole in that tube is about 3/4 of the way up the tube. So there's really only a small amount of oil that will drain out of the canister with the engine off. To fully change the oil in an engine with one of those filters, you need a suction gun to empty the oil filter housing. Some of the similar filters I've seen had a petcock on the bottom to make this exercise easy, but for some reason the Studebaker ones don't have one. I ASSume that the spin ons also have an anti-drainback valve, but haven't cut one apart to confirm.

                          nate

                          --
                          55 Commander Starlight
                          http://members.cox.net/njnagel
                          --
                          55 Commander Starlight
                          http://members.cox.net/njnagel

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            No, the spin-on partial flo setups DO drain out after the engine's stopped. In fact, you can often hear as they drain out their last - it sounds like when you suck the last of a drink out of a glass with a straw![:I]
                            Stude HAD both 5 and 6Qt oil pans. But as to the spin-on filter (the one's I use anyway - Fram PH25 or equivalent), they can hold maybe something less than half a quart. There's a larger filter that works too but looking at it, it doesn't look like it has the capacity to hold a whole quart.

                            Miscreant adrift in
                            the BerStuda Triangle


                            1957 Transtar 1/2ton
                            1960 Larkvertible V8
                            1958 Provincial wagon
                            1953 Commander coupe

                            No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Has this thread has gotten a little out of hand with personal opinions? I think the original question was valid, and that "we" are assuming the car (a hawk?) will be driven flat out on the Autobahn. Part of this reply is based on that assumption.

                              If a Stude V8 is to be run flat out for a number of miles the real issue is not oil cooling . It is drain-back of oil from the engine heads. It was recognized 40 years ago that the drain-back hole from the valve covers was inadequate, leading to excessive oil accumulating inside the valve covers under sustained high speed operation. From personal experience on a 51 Commander the excess oil will be sucked into the intake valves and burned, shortly leading to engine oil shortage. One factory solution in 1962 was to decrease the size of the oil supply passage in the rocker shaft. So, limiting oil to the rocker shafts is a first step for sustained high speed operation. A second step, which has limited success, is to enlarge the drain-back hole.

                              So, for any sustained high speed Stude V8 operation first accomplish the 2 steps above. Then put an extra tie-down or latch on the hood. Next - drive it! - while keeping an eye on the oil pressure guage. Stop and add oil if the guage needle begins to fluctuate. Next - start thinking about slowing down from high speeds and the aerodynamic problems, such as lifting of the front end (and hood)at high speeds.

                              Back to oil cooling, yes, early blocks could be modified to allow full flow remote filters and coolers. See Due Cento newsletters for printed how-to instructions. Inelegant? Maybe so. Would it be more elegant to provide oil pickups from each valve cover to a separate oil pump that could then be routed to a cooler and filter and then to a 10 gallon oil tank in the trunk, from which oil could be supplied back to the oil pan via a float valve that is compensated for the possible g-forces of acceleration. Or, how about taking the on-top bypass oil filter off, relocating it in front of the radiator, routing oil from it from there thru an elaborate finned oil cooler in front of the radiator, then through an ice-filled cool can, and finally back to the oil pan? The objections to this scheme will be "but you're not cooling all the oil" or "it won't look factory stock." How about modifying a Studebaker air conditioner to cool engine oil? Oh well, maybe Rube Goldberg has other ideas.

                              I bet it will much cheaper, better, and safer to buy a used 5+liter Mercedes car that is engineered from start to run on the Autobahn.

                              Comment

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