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63 Avanti - died while driving it - spark resolved

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  • 63 Avanti - died while driving it - spark resolved

    Edited for new picture locations - 1/2/2010

    OK ... I tried another coil/ballist resistor on it from the R1 I got
    a few months back. No dice. It cranks, kicks once and cranks more.
    It died while I was driving it .. just tapered off and quit. Its got
    gas, I can see it squirting into the carb. I cant leave it where it
    is right now, and my back is killing me from pushing it a block by
    myself. Some of the connections are kinda suspect, so I will crimp
    on a few new connectors. Oh yah, and its raining.

    Anyone got any bright ideas .. or perhaps a troubleshooting plan? I
    pulled the coil wire and its got a weak spark thats not to consistant.
    It seems to spark once right when you stop cranking.

    Tom

    '63 Avanti, zinc plated drilled & slotted 03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, soon: 97 Z28 T-56 6-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves, 'R3' 276 cam, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires
    '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
    Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
    http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
    I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

  • #2
    "It seems to spark once right when you stop cranking."


    That should be a tip. The only time you are collapsing the field on the coil is the off and on from cranking. Check the points.


    64 Commander 2 dr.
    64 Daytona HT
    63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
    63 Avanti R1
    63 Daytona convert
    63 Lark 2 door
    63 Lark 2 door #2
    62 Daytona HT/ 4 speed
    62 Lark 2 door
    62 GT Hawk 4 speed
    60 Lark HT
    60 Hawk
    59 3E truck
    52 Starliner
    51 Commander

    JDP Maryland

    Comment


    • #3
      Yah ... should be a tip, but I forgot it even HAD points![:I] I havent
      been dealing with points on a regular basis since I converted the Hawk
      to an HEI distributor. Thanks for the tip .. I will go back over and
      pop the cap off the distributor.

      UPDATE: I JUST got back, the points look fine, gray but not burned,
      they are opening and closing and there is a gap. The rotor is also
      turning, so nothing there broke.

      There is a condensor inside ... I have the HEI distributor from the
      Hawk engine, but I wasnt planning on putting that in yet. The one
      from the other R1 (the Lark one) is a window distributor. Think its
      worth while swapping that in at this time?? The HEI requires all the
      wires to be changed.

      Tom

      quote:Originally posted by JDP
      That should be a tip. The only time you are collapsing the field on the coil is the off and on from cranking. Check the points.
      '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
      Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
      http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
      I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

      Comment


      • #4
        "It seems to spark once right when you stop cranking."


        That should be a tip. The only time you are collapsing the field on the coil is the off and on from cranking. Check the points.


        64 Commander 2 dr.
        64 Daytona HT
        63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
        63 Avanti R1
        63 Daytona convert
        63 Lark 2 door
        63 Lark 2 door #2
        62 Daytona HT/ 4 speed
        62 Lark 2 door
        62 GT Hawk 4 speed
        60 Lark HT
        60 Hawk
        59 3E truck
        52 Starliner
        51 Commander

        JDP Maryland

        Comment


        • #5
          I checked the points ...... anything else?

          Tom
          '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
          Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
          http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
          I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

          Comment


          • #6
            Tom,
            What year of HEI? Some of those had a ign module in them that would fail. Its about the size of a quarter. When it failed the car just quit![}] Hope this helps

            63 Twin Supercharged Avanti
            64 Avanti R3w/NOS
            88LSC Avanti 350 Supercharged w/NOS

            Comment


            • #7
              No no no ... the 63 Avanti still has points[:I]. The HEI I have on an
              engine in the garage. I could swap it in, but its too much trouble.

              I changed the end on the distributor wire, still no spark. I am going
              to try the coil wire off the R1 in the garage.

              Its soooo freakin cold here.

              Tom
              '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
              Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
              http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
              I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

              Comment


              • #8
                Tom, check your ignition switch and switch connections. A loose connection will play havoc with everything and will send you on a wild goose chase checking everything else.
                "Madness...is the exception in individuals, but the rule in groups" - Nietzsche.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Turn the key on and open and close the points with a insulated tool of some sort. (stick, plastic knife, etc. You should get a decent arc at the points and a nice hot one from the coil wire.

                  64 Commander 2 dr.
                  64 Daytona HT
                  63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
                  63 Avanti R1
                  63 Daytona convert
                  63 Lark 2 door
                  63 Lark 2 door #2
                  62 Daytona HT/ 4 speed
                  62 Lark 2 door
                  62 GT Hawk 4 speed
                  60 Lark HT
                  60 Hawk
                  59 3E truck
                  52 Starliner
                  51 Commander

                  JDP Maryland

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    OK .. just got back again ... couldnt feel my hands. Ran hot water
                    over them. I put all the connections back on the original coil. I
                    needed to get the extra coil out of the way to get the cap off. I put
                    two crimp connectors onto the two that were suspect - no change. I
                    will go back over now and try the key on, spread points with plastic
                    knife deal to see if I get a spark. Its consistant in sparking when
                    I stop cranking. Its a faint blueish spark. This sucks. What is it
                    if I dont get the hot spark when I spread the points?[B)]

                    Tom
                    '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
                    Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
                    http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
                    I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I once had one, that the metal contact that is on the edge of the rotor cap had risen up far enough to make contact with the dist. cap, and bent the contact over to one side, the contact is not supposed to "contact".
                      It only happened one time when I revved past 5800rpms. don't cost nothing to check.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Tom, you could have a shorted condensor or a short to ground within the ignition points or the pigtail lead from the points to the coil.

                        The fact that coil sparks once when you stop cranking tells me that the coil is probably OK, but that something is wrong on the breaker plate of the distributor.

                        Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands
                        Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          JDP sent me on the right track, and yes gordr thats what it was. When
                          I got the extra coil out of the way, I was able to get the cap off
                          enough to look right down at the distributor. First thing I noticed
                          was that its a dual point - I didnt know that. Second thing was that
                          the wire from the condensor was shoved down between the plate and the
                          outer edge of the distributor housing. I was concerned about this,
                          since the plate moves!! I pulled the wire back out and looped it up
                          away from the plate and housing. I noticed that the backside had a
                          hole through the insulation!!! I left it looped up out of the way, and
                          tried the spark test again .. NICE SOLID SPARK. Put it back together
                          and it fired up right away. Runs better now even. I need to source
                          a new condensor, but I was able to get it home & back in the garage.

                          Thanks for all your help!! You guys are great.[^]

                          Looped wire :



                          Dual points :



                          Tom
                          '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
                          Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
                          http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
                          I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Good pictures, Tom. Glad you got her going again. Looking at the pictures, I think I might see some powdered rust in there. You might be well advised to take the distributor out of the car, on a nice day, and remove the breaker plate, and check the condition of the pivot points for the two balance weights. Could be they are dry and need oil. Without lubrication, the laminated steel weights wear out real fast where they are mounted on the pivot pins, and the holes wallow out. In extreme cases, the weights can begin to "mill" the inside of the distributor body. Before this happens, your centrifugal advance curve is all messed up. This is a known weakness in Prestolite distributors. Take the time to do a little preventive maintenance, and avoid another roadside breakdown.

                            Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands
                            Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I appreciate the heads up on the weights. I feel though that if the
                              distributor comes out of the engine, its not going back in.

                              I have plans to use the HEI that I have on the Hawks engine. I just
                              havent bothered with it since I always have more important things to
                              mess with. The whole reason the Avanti left the garage today was to
                              get some new pictures of it for a magazine. If these get accepted it
                              will be kinda funny, I just took them where the car died!![:I]

                              Tom

                              quote:Originally posted by gordr

                              Good pictures, Tom. Glad you got her going again. Looking at the pictures, I think I might see some powdered rust in there. ... Take the time to do a little preventive maintenance, and avoid another roadside breakdown.
                              '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
                              Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
                              http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
                              I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

                              Comment

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