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  • #16
    Thanks Dan, yes that sleeve IS a slip fit! I thought I was losing my
    mind (might still be!) when I noticed the housing "levitating" above
    the piece of paper I set it on!! I picked it up and like you said it
    was hanging out. The pin was still there. I still need to familarize
    myself with all the parts to figure out what I am replacing. The kit
    doesnt include bushings, so those are staying. I will try the Kragen
    down the street after work for that seal.

    Tom
    '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
    Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
    http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
    I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

    Comment


    • #17
      UPDATE: Wish I had better news, I drove all the way up to San Luis
      today to look at that Napa seal and its the same one I got on the kit.
      I got another possible number though, sounds promising but its special
      order only. I might be able to cross it to another brand seal?? The
      number is a 7449 :

      I.D. : .75"
      O.D. : 1.254"
      Width : .375"

      It also lists as being a different style case. The San Luis Napa has
      internet connection and pulled up this forum to check Nate's numbers.
      I wanted to make sure the above (7449) hadnt been posted. He looked
      at the pictures I posted of the original seal, and said it looked like
      the same case as the 7449 seal, where as the 7465 is different.

      Tom
      '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
      Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
      http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
      I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

      Comment


      • #18
        So far nothing but dead ends. It doesnt look like the OEM seal is
        made anymore, and the one in the Studebaker International kit is the
        best replacement available. That's depressing, but I guess such is
        life. The Napa ordered the 7449 seal, and it has the SAME thin seal
        area that the S.I. seal has. Each seal I have found has the same
        type, just a thicker or thinner case. I was going to bring the OEM
        seal by for the guy to look at personally, but it looks like it is
        what it is, and the pump will go back together with the thin seal.

        Tom
        '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
        Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
        http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
        I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

        Comment


        • #19
          Got out there to do some more on the pump today, during the week I had
          the lid and reservoir soaked and sandblasted and then painted them. I
          gave up on the seal search, just going to use the one I have. I seem
          to remember Mike posting up some info on how to install it without it
          being damaged, but I tried search and cant find it now. If memory is
          right, you remove the gear and the snap ring, pound the seal into the
          housing, and push the shaft in from the outside (with the pulley on).

          Here is how I removed the valve assembly, in a vise with a piece of wood
          protecting the o-ring surface from the jaws of the vice :



          As far as I can figure out, the kit comes with a couple seals you dont
          use, I laid them out on a towel .. and labeled them.



          Here is the valve out of the housing, and the fat o-ring from the kit.



          Installed o-ring, I just lubed it, and rolled it gently over the cap
          threads, that should be OK.



          Added lube to to and tightened it back into the housing using the wood
          block as in the above picture.



          This worries me, the shaft is scored, I noticed it before, but now I
          wonder of its OK. The pin is crushed like you mentioned Mike. I think
          its around a grade 5 or grade 8 pin? I could probably buy a shoulder
          bolt and cut the head and threads off. I will check with Napa. See
          any problem with using this shaft?





          Tom
          '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
          Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
          http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
          I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

          Comment


          • #20
            Go get yourself a 99075 Speedi-Sleeve from SKF (formerly Chicago-Rawhide), or a 99075 Redi-Sleeve from National.
            Follow the instructions about installing the sleeve and removing the installation ring.
            http://www.alliedbearings.com/mfg_pr...ve_install.pdf
            You may need to modify it a bit, but if it can save your shaft....
            They are only eleven thousandths thick, so your seal will ride on a good shaft surface (centerless plunge ground)..
            These have saved a lot of shafts in the world....
            http://www2.chicago-rawhide.com/speedi_sleeves.htm

            Jeff[8D]



            quote:Originally posted by sbca96
            <snip>
            This worries me, the shaft is scored, I noticed it before, but now I
            wonder of its OK. The pin is crushed like you mentioned Mike. I think
            its around a grade 5 or grade 8 pin? I could probably buy a shoulder
            bolt and cut the head and threads off. I will check with Napa. See
            any problem with using this shaft?



            DEEPNHOCK at Gmail.com
            Brooklet, Georgia
            '37 Coupe Express (never ending project)
            '37 Coupe Express Trailer (project)
            '61 Hawk (project)
            http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

            HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

            Jeff


            Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



            Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

            Comment


            • #21
              The grooves in the shaft, at either end of the cutout for the pin, don't matter. That's an area that doesn't contact anything when the roller carrier is slid over the drive pin. The grooves are the original finish.
              The carrier comes off the shaft easily, with the snap ring removed.
              What was left of my original pin looked like it had once been smooth and round, with rounded ends like the cutout in the shaft. Maybe it's supposed to shear easily, if the pump jams. I think I made my new pin out of the smooth end of a drill bit. I rounded the ends like the original; and made it a little longer, to almost fill the cutout. I may have used a nail; which would be a little softer.
              By the way, the pulley uses a conventional half moon key.
              Mike M.

              Comment


              • #22
                This is a great post! I am looking forward to rebuilding mine.

                Tom when are you doing the actuator valve? I need some tips and step by step pictures on that one too!

                1964 GT Hawk soon to be R2 Clone
                1964 GT Hawk
                PSMCDR 2014
                Best time: 14.473 sec. 96.57 MPH quarter mile
                PSMCDR 2013
                Best time: 14.654 sec. 94.53 MPH quarter

                Victoria, Canada

                Comment


                • #23
                  Thanks for the input Mike and Jeff, sorry I should have made it more
                  clear that the grooves are not at the bushing surface, but under the
                  gear (which doesnt rotate). It does seem like the material of the
                  pin is soft, the instructions say to replace it (easy to do back when
                  the car was new!).

                  Was I correct in the install of the shaft, after the seal has been put
                  into the housing? I have the half moon key for the pulley, thats in
                  good shape. It looks like no matter how I try to install the shaft,
                  it will destroy the seal, unless I follow what I typed above. The
                  shaft is rounded on the opposite side from the pulley, and the seal is
                  angled such that its only going to accept the shaft one direction.

                  The power ram and control valve will be next. I was supposed to get
                  it done this weekend, for a show next weekend, but I called them and
                  it looks like they have no room left for me anyway (so I am not going
                  to kill myself getting this done in a hurry), there is always next
                  year! (Andy Granatelli is one of the hosts, he didnt make it to our
                  show last year, the one I busted my butt getting ready for, Sept 06)

                  http://www.wheelsandwaves.com/

                  Tom
                  '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
                  Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
                  http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
                  I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Tom,

                    Yes, install the shaft the way you described, removing the lock ring and roll pin and pushing the shaft through from that end. Use some grease over the rough areas. By installing the woodruff key and the pully, that keeps the shaft from slipping back through the seal across that sharp edge. Your pictures and text all look great! This will be a big help to some who otherwise might not attempt this task. Again, GREAT JOB!

                    Dan Miller
                    Atlanta, GA

                    [img=left]http://static.flickr.com/57/228744729_7aff5f0118_m.jpg[/img=left]
                    Road Racers turn left AND right.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I decided to throw caution to the wind, take the day off and do the
                      whole rebuild in order to get the car back on the road for the show
                      this weekend. So much for lofty plans, at least I got the pump done.

                      I went over to Napa, and they told me they dont carry any solid dowel
                      pins. They recommended Ace Hardware, and sure enough they had a large
                      selection of them. I bought two, one 3/16 x 1/2 and one 3/16 x 3/4.

                      3/16 x 1/2
                      skw : 08236 73720
                      label : 44240-F
                      price : .30

                      3/16 x 3/4
                      skw : 08236 73722
                      label : 44241-G
                      price : .35

                      The 1/2 long dowel pin was the same length as the orginal one, but I
                      wanted to fill the groove, so I bought the 3/4 also to grind down to
                      get a more snug fit.





                      Then I pounded in the seal, this is the one that came in the kit. I
                      have always used a hammer, and tapped back and forth, side to side,
                      in a star pattern, and circular to get the seal to go in straight.





                      Then I used a 15/16 socket to drive it in until it stopped moving.



                      Next was to disassemble the pin assembly, removing the gear and split
                      retainer ring.



                      Assemble the pulley onto the pin, it helps to stick the dowel pin in
                      the groove and temporarily put the gear back on





                      Slide the gear back off, and put some lube on the pin and seal.



                      Slide the pin into the seal and through the housing half.





                      Set the housing half onto the pulley and gather these parts.



                      Then assemble them, making sure to match the direction of the "teeth"
                      on the gear. It IS directional, so dont put it in backward! Now put
                      the split retainer ring into the groove. I should note that the ring
                      was worn flat on one side from being next to the gear for 40 years. I
                      put the ring back on reversed to put off buying a replacement for yet
                      another 40 years. You can see the 'flat' facing out in the picture.









                      Gather up these parts, two orings and the cylinders. Remove the old
                      smaller o-ring if its still there.



                      Tom
                      Last edited by sbca96; 05-29-2014, 10:01 PM. Reason: SDC forum got broked
                      '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
                      Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
                      http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
                      I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Here's a suggestion for you....
                        Get a small strong flat magnet and stick it to the outside of the can to pick up metal chips. Put it in a place where the spiral flow isn't so wicked. Then you can take the lid off and wipe out any accumulation that collects there.
                        Cheap filtering
                        Jeff[8D]




                        DEEPNHOCK at Gmail.com
                        Brooklet, Georgia
                        '37 Coupe Express (never ending project)
                        '37 Coupe Express Trailer (project)
                        '61 Hawk (project)
                        http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

                        HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

                        Jeff


                        Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



                        Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Tom,

                          You don't have to take the ram off of the car to reseal it, unless you just want to go tho the extra trouble. It's actually easier with it ON to car. Disconnect the "tie-rod" end from the bellcrank. Remove the "tie-rod" end from the ram shaft, making sure to mark or count the threads so you'll be able to reinstall the end back to its original position. get some snap-ring plires and remove the snap ring and the dust shield with the plastic washer. Next, wrap a shop rag around the shaft where it enters the body of the ram. Tie it up tight then have a good size pan under this area. Crank the engine at idle speed, turn the steering wheel to the right full lock. Tug on it once or twice, this forces the old seal out. Just don't run your pump dry. It may take one or two attempts. Have done MANY this method, you don't risk damage to the shaft trying to "dig" to old seal out, not to mention the extra trouble to remove the ram. Hope this helps.

                          [img=left]http://static.flickr.com/57/228744729_7aff5f0118_m.jpg[/img=left]
                          Road Racers turn left AND right.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Tom, thanks for going thru the entire procedure. Being able to see this done with pictures will give a lot of us the confidence to be able handle the rebuild on our own without subleting it someone else to do. I hope you are able to get thr ram off of your car so the we may see the same type of rebuild detail that you have with the pump.

                            As a note to others you may be doing repairs or rebuilds, I hope you will follow Tom's lead in showing us what you are doing and what it entailed. I would dare to say most of us here fall under the term shade tree mechanic or hobbist, and seeing some of the repairs completed in this fashion will only help the rest of us. I hope some of these threads are converted into a how-to section at some point for the long term benefit of all.

                            ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            Tom - Valrico, FL

                            1964 Studebaker Daytona

                            Tom - Bradenton, FL

                            1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2514.10)
                            1964 Studebaker Commander - 170 1V, 3-Speed w/OD

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Thanks Jeff, I have read others mentioning the magnet trick, seems its
                              worth adding to a transmission pan also.

                              RoadRaceLark, thats the part that doesnt want to come off. The "tie-
                              rod end". I removed the cotter pin and loosen the nut. I wacked the
                              bellcrank quite a few times with a sledge, but it wont "pop-out". I've
                              used this method with these types of ends before and they usually take
                              just a couple hits. I buttoned it back up. Since the end is threaded
                              to the ram shaft, couldnt it be separated there? I can not use the
                              pump pressure to disassmeble the ram, the hoses are toast, I am afraid
                              that they will explode with the new pump. I do have an air compressor
                              though, so that should take the place.

                              Swifster, thanks, thats why I took so many pictures, as they say "A
                              picture is worth a thousand words". I must also add that setting up
                              each step to take pictures adds a LOT of extra time to the job. This
                              is why I "only" got the pump done. I would also like to see this and
                              my fuel pump threads put into a "sticky" tech section.

                              Tom
                              '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
                              Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
                              http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
                              I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Tom,


                                It helps tremendously if you use a "pickle fork" (the smaller size) along with that sledge hammer. If you don't have one, I'm sure one of your local FLAPS has tools to loan out. Rest assured, the amount of pressure it would take to "blow" that seal out would be considerably be less than to blow a hose, even if they are old. It requires a lot of pressure to turn those radial tires on pavement with the weight of the car on them. I've never failed to remove one using this method.

                                Dan(sorry I didn't sign the last reply)Miller
                                Atlanta, GA

                                [img=left]http://static.flickr.com/57/228744729_7aff5f0118_m.jpg[/img=left]
                                Road Racers turn left AND right.

                                Comment

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