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FLAT TAPPET OIL (original post deleted)

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  • oldvinyl
    replied
    60 Lark, Great sentiment. As for the motorcycle issue, I also put on well over 500,000 miles on bikes in my early years I concur with you there., One thing I positively aggree with beyond a shadow of doubt is that all stock valve springed Stude engines dont have many camshaft issues period. these are superp wide chrysler footprint tappets on V8s, the first early Stude V8s had even wider footprint, All 6 cylinders have fantastic mushroom tappets that just last forever. Valve spring pressures are very weak open as compared to most other motors. you usually get valve float above 4800 RPM, this should tell ya something. I dont check in very often on this site, but I must say this, Regardless of differences of opinion, brutally rude comments have no place in our forums. This is not a place for arm wrestling,Go duke it out down behind the church, There are no Idiots here. perhaps a few insecure gents that need a little woman lovin.

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  • Chucks Stude
    replied
    My thoughts exactly, Jessie.

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  • Jessie J.
    replied
    Sounds like there would be a market for an oil additive containing ZDDP ? or would it be illegal?

    Leave a comment:


  • John Kirchhoff
    replied
    Nowlet's not get all riled up...don't you know the tree huggers, Liberals and government are just looking out for our own best interests? Ha!

    Sometimes government can be extremely myopic. A few years ago Missouri's department of conservation re-introduced river otters into the state after being extinct for many decades. On the surface, that sounds great until you realize the only natural predators an otter has is a wolf or black bear, neither of which Missouri has. So that means the otter population has exploded and when one finds your pond, they literally eat every fish in it after which they move on to the next poor sucker's pond. It cost me $350 to stock my pond and I sure don't want to feed the state's stupid otters. Typical government!

    Leave a comment:


  • StudeRich
    replied
    Thanks for sharing your Motorcycle experience with us John, it is quite interesting in spite of the major differences in those engines vs a Stude. V-8 with solid lifters some things show that oil would do a fine job of protecting a Stude. engine.

    However there is one major fault in those facts. Todays Automotive engine oil as of about Sept/Oct. 2006 is NO LONGER WHAT IT WAS!
    The oil that protected your Yamaha/Honda will no longer do that good a job becuase the &^%^%$#@*()+ FEDS and tree huggers have ruined it for us! The ZDDP additives that were in that Castrol are gone! That is the big issue with the flat tappet engines anyway, you have overhead cam, those and roller lifter engines will not suffer from the change, the Oil Co.'s are thinking there are not enough hot rods with 350 Chev. engines and old Studebakers etc. out there to even issue a WARNING LABEL!! duh!! WHAT ARE THEY THINKING? [xx(] [xx(] Even Jack in the Box warns you that: "Coffee is HOT do not spill it on yourself"!

    StudeRich
    Studebakers Northwest
    Ferndale, WA

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  • John Kirchhoff
    replied
    There seems to be a lot of concern over the oil-flat tappet situation. I've had no experience with tappet wear nor am I as knowledgable as most of you other folks are. The only reason I'm mentioning this is because of the experience I've had with my motorcycle engine. It has double overhead cams with the cam lobes riding directly on clearance shims that are located on top of buckets which fit over the valve stem and valve spring assembly. I swapped the engine out this spring after more miles than most bikes will ever see. For the previous 5-6 years I used Castrol 20-50 exclusively which incidently was/is a "S" rated oil for gasoline engines only...not diesels. The engine is air cooled and I'd had an oil temp guage on it for years. In the summertime the oil temp was almost always 200-225 degrees and in very hot weather and hard running it was not uncommon for the temp to reach 250-260 degrees, hotter than most petroleum based oils should be and definately hotter than a water cooled engine's oil will be. I'd change oil every 3000-4000 miles which probably wasn't often enough either. The engine uses double valve springs, one inside the other and either one by itself is considerabaly stiffer than a Stude valve spring. The cam lobe is about the same width as a Stude cam but the lift is higher which means a greater shearing action when the valve is opened. When I take into consideration the bike engine turned 2.1 times as fast as the average Stude engine at a given speed, the cam had opened the valves enough times to equal 227,000 Stude miles. And you know what? After all those miles of opening valve springs very much stiffer than Stude springs with oil hotter than it should have been, the same oil that was also lubricating the transmission and front bevel gears and having no repairs whatsoever, when I removed the engine from service the cams were still in great shape. Absolutely no pitting or scoring on the cam lobes or shims and 6 of the 8 shims had never been removed or changed during the life of the bike. When I think about the conditions the oil endured in my bike engine, if Stude or other makes of engines are experiencing tappet wear, it makes me think that maybe the problem is more the tappets or cams than the oil. The only possibility I can think of is if cam makers back then didn't put clearance ramps on cams to take up the slack before the lobe slammed the valve open, but that shouldn't really matter much with engines that use hydraulic lifters. I'm not saying tappet wear doesn't exist, but it makes me wonder if we're barking up the wrong tree when we blame oils.

    Leave a comment:


  • 60Lark
    replied
    I usually avoid the controversial threads, but not this time. I fully agree with you Tim, If opinions can't be posted with-out verbal abuse and name calling, I feel the forum will be far better off with-out the disgruntled and disagreeable ones ever posting. After reading through this thread a couple of times, it looks to me as though this thread was started to provoke a disagreement. Just my Opinion [xx(][xx(][xx(][xx(]


    Studebaker Fever
    60 Lark
    51 Champion
    Phil
    Arnold, Missouri

    Leave a comment:


  • oldvinyl
    replied
    Oils are not as complicated as you might think, Within SAE standards you will find oils to suit every need, from street use to all out top fuel dragster thrashing. There is really no need to dig very deep. Additives and tricks of the trade such as GM EOS are but a few. If your street engine starts making noises with Rotella chances are that the hydraulic tappets cant deal with thicker viscosity. Seen this especially true on some OHC motors from GM. Tom O.

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  • GTtim
    replied
    Your information is appreciated, but your attitude isn't!

    "I'm gonna hang around so that I can someday say, "I told you so" when yaw wouldn't listen now "


    This is actually a good thing, as the more disagreeable people leave the forum, the more agreeable the forum becomes.

    "I'm outta here. I won't be coming back to this site 'cause I'm conversing with idiots!"

    Tim K.
    '64 R2 Hawk

    Leave a comment:


  • StudeRich
    replied
    Interesting site Don, but I read only a few Synthetic supporters and mostly the Old Shell Rotella T API Spec. CI-4 and even the new CJ-4 is considered to be one of the highest levels of ZDDP additives available. One states that Synthetics have none, only substitutes. Some day we will know the truth as to which ones really protect our cams & lifters, I hope not the hard way!

    StudeRich
    Studebakers Northwest
    Ferndale, WA

    Leave a comment:


  • Original50
    replied
    .

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  • oldvinyl
    replied
    My personal experiences with oils stems from actual full on race Oval trackers that pull down 7500 RPMS all day long. So far one of the finest oils Ive used was based on Timken pull testing. The Oil was made by southwest petroluem products, SWEPCO. Its availiable in graphite formula, I use this along with GM OES suppliment. Another very good product is Castrol syntec, inspite of what you hear, this is a very good synthetic oil. The timken testing is not always a fair guide either, We dont see steel on steel parts in race engines other than roller tappets/cams. Aluminum parts such as bearings piston skirts and also piston rings live better with most high end synthetic race oils. I have used rottella T aswell, however I find it to be a very good oil when you use all of your throttle. Because rottella sheds heat so well, like EOS additive it is not the greatest product to use in gasoline motors on the street on a steady basis. Some of the new "Zero" weight race oils have been developed and show spectacular merrit. At Bonneville last August a few cars were running it. It has proven to shed heat at greater rate without any buildup of deposits and especially at ring land areas. New things are happening in oils, and no matter what you see and hear use a product that is tailored to your specific needs. Any SAE engine oil of high rating is good for your Stude, Keep it clean. Tom Osborne

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  • Swifster
    replied
    quote:Originally posted by Swifster

    I find that discussions on oil, filters and gasoline usually fall into the same catagory as talking about politics, religion and sex. Everyone has their own ideas of what works and what doesn't. And I don't think I'd ever be able to change anyones views on any of the six subjects listed above anymore than someone could change mine.

    Hmmm, let me post this one more time. And as Dick mentioned, include spark plugs in the above list .

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Tom - Valrico, FL

    1964 Studebaker Daytona

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  • John Kirchhoff
    replied
    I agree with sntsftbll, there's business and then there's personal. If you tell me that you consider what I believe is wrong, that's fine. Tell me I'm wrong for believing what I believe and that's personal. Don, I believe you to be a very intelligent, logical, analytical minded person. In fact, you come across as being much like my father who just happened to be a perfectionist among other things. And while he was seldom wrong, his flaw was thinking he could never be wrong. As Mr. Biggs put it, chill out. I'm sure your blood pressure will go down, you'll live much longer and therefore be able to enjoy your cars much longer. Besides, your input can be of benefit to all of us but please let everyone make and express their own opinion. An old man once told me, "Opinions are like rear ends, everyone has one and they're all different".

    Leave a comment:


  • Roscomacaw
    replied
    "I'm gonna hang around so that I can someday say, "I told you so" when yaw wouldn't listen now "

    Geez Don. This is a forum, not a dictators pulpit. Chill out.

    Miscreant adrift in
    the BerStuda Triangle


    1957 Transtar 1/2ton
    1960 Larkvertible V8
    1958 Provincial wagon
    1953 Commander coupe

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