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FLAT TAPPET OIL (original post deleted)

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  • #31
    Your information is appreciated, but your attitude isn't!

    "I'm gonna hang around so that I can someday say, "I told you so" when yaw wouldn't listen now "


    This is actually a good thing, as the more disagreeable people leave the forum, the more agreeable the forum becomes.

    "I'm outta here. I won't be coming back to this site 'cause I'm conversing with idiots!"

    Tim K.
    '64 R2 Hawk
    Tim K.
    \'64 R2 GT Hawk

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    • #32
      Oils are not as complicated as you might think, Within SAE standards you will find oils to suit every need, from street use to all out top fuel dragster thrashing. There is really no need to dig very deep. Additives and tricks of the trade such as GM EOS are but a few. If your street engine starts making noises with Rotella chances are that the hydraulic tappets cant deal with thicker viscosity. Seen this especially true on some OHC motors from GM. Tom O.

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      • #33
        I usually avoid the controversial threads, but not this time. I fully agree with you Tim, If opinions can't be posted with-out verbal abuse and name calling, I feel the forum will be far better off with-out the disgruntled and disagreeable ones ever posting. After reading through this thread a couple of times, it looks to me as though this thread was started to provoke a disagreement. Just my Opinion [xx(][xx(][xx(][xx(]


        Studebaker Fever
        60 Lark
        51 Champion
        Phil
        Arnold, Missouri

        Studebaker Fever
        60 Lark
        56 Power Hawk
        Phil Hendrickson
        Arnold, Missouri

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        • #34
          There seems to be a lot of concern over the oil-flat tappet situation. I've had no experience with tappet wear nor am I as knowledgable as most of you other folks are. The only reason I'm mentioning this is because of the experience I've had with my motorcycle engine. It has double overhead cams with the cam lobes riding directly on clearance shims that are located on top of buckets which fit over the valve stem and valve spring assembly. I swapped the engine out this spring after more miles than most bikes will ever see. For the previous 5-6 years I used Castrol 20-50 exclusively which incidently was/is a "S" rated oil for gasoline engines only...not diesels. The engine is air cooled and I'd had an oil temp guage on it for years. In the summertime the oil temp was almost always 200-225 degrees and in very hot weather and hard running it was not uncommon for the temp to reach 250-260 degrees, hotter than most petroleum based oils should be and definately hotter than a water cooled engine's oil will be. I'd change oil every 3000-4000 miles which probably wasn't often enough either. The engine uses double valve springs, one inside the other and either one by itself is considerabaly stiffer than a Stude valve spring. The cam lobe is about the same width as a Stude cam but the lift is higher which means a greater shearing action when the valve is opened. When I take into consideration the bike engine turned 2.1 times as fast as the average Stude engine at a given speed, the cam had opened the valves enough times to equal 227,000 Stude miles. And you know what? After all those miles of opening valve springs very much stiffer than Stude springs with oil hotter than it should have been, the same oil that was also lubricating the transmission and front bevel gears and having no repairs whatsoever, when I removed the engine from service the cams were still in great shape. Absolutely no pitting or scoring on the cam lobes or shims and 6 of the 8 shims had never been removed or changed during the life of the bike. When I think about the conditions the oil endured in my bike engine, if Stude or other makes of engines are experiencing tappet wear, it makes me think that maybe the problem is more the tappets or cams than the oil. The only possibility I can think of is if cam makers back then didn't put clearance ramps on cams to take up the slack before the lobe slammed the valve open, but that shouldn't really matter much with engines that use hydraulic lifters. I'm not saying tappet wear doesn't exist, but it makes me wonder if we're barking up the wrong tree when we blame oils.

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          • #35
            Thanks for sharing your Motorcycle experience with us John, it is quite interesting in spite of the major differences in those engines vs a Stude. V-8 with solid lifters some things show that oil would do a fine job of protecting a Stude. engine.

            However there is one major fault in those facts. Todays Automotive engine oil as of about Sept/Oct. 2006 is NO LONGER WHAT IT WAS!
            The oil that protected your Yamaha/Honda will no longer do that good a job becuase the &^%^%$#@*()+ FEDS and tree huggers have ruined it for us! The ZDDP additives that were in that Castrol are gone! That is the big issue with the flat tappet engines anyway, you have overhead cam, those and roller lifter engines will not suffer from the change, the Oil Co.'s are thinking there are not enough hot rods with 350 Chev. engines and old Studebakers etc. out there to even issue a WARNING LABEL!! duh!! WHAT ARE THEY THINKING? [xx(] [xx(] Even Jack in the Box warns you that: "Coffee is HOT do not spill it on yourself"!

            StudeRich
            Studebakers Northwest
            Ferndale, WA
            StudeRich
            Second Generation Stude Driver,
            Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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            • #36
              Nowlet's not get all riled up...don't you know the tree huggers, Liberals and government are just looking out for our own best interests? Ha!

              Sometimes government can be extremely myopic. A few years ago Missouri's department of conservation re-introduced river otters into the state after being extinct for many decades. On the surface, that sounds great until you realize the only natural predators an otter has is a wolf or black bear, neither of which Missouri has. So that means the otter population has exploded and when one finds your pond, they literally eat every fish in it after which they move on to the next poor sucker's pond. It cost me $350 to stock my pond and I sure don't want to feed the state's stupid otters. Typical government!

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              • #37
                Sounds like there would be a market for an oil additive containing ZDDP ? or would it be illegal?

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                • #38
                  My thoughts exactly, Jessie.

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                  • #39
                    60 Lark, Great sentiment. As for the motorcycle issue, I also put on well over 500,000 miles on bikes in my early years I concur with you there., One thing I positively aggree with beyond a shadow of doubt is that all stock valve springed Stude engines dont have many camshaft issues period. these are superp wide chrysler footprint tappets on V8s, the first early Stude V8s had even wider footprint, All 6 cylinders have fantastic mushroom tappets that just last forever. Valve spring pressures are very weak open as compared to most other motors. you usually get valve float above 4800 RPM, this should tell ya something. I dont check in very often on this site, but I must say this, Regardless of differences of opinion, brutally rude comments have no place in our forums. This is not a place for arm wrestling,Go duke it out down behind the church, There are no Idiots here. perhaps a few insecure gents that need a little woman lovin.

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