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FLAT TAPPET OIL (original post deleted)

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  • #16
    The part of the Hot Rod quote that is applicable to your concern:

    "Modern heavy-duty truck diesel oils with lots of ZDDP additives will be marked "CI-4" or "CI-4 Plus." They also easily pass the API Service SL gasoline engine performance test"

    BTW, we're just having a discussion, no one was rude in expressing their opinion.

    64 Commander 2 dr.
    64 Daytona HT
    63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
    63 Avanti R1
    63 Daytona convert
    63 Lark 2 door
    63 Lark 2 door #2
    62 Daytona HT/ 4 speed
    62 Lark 2 door
    62 GT Hawk 4 speed
    60 Lark HT
    60 Hawk
    59 3E truck
    52 Starliner
    51 Commander

    JDP Maryland


    • #17
      I posted a reply to this topic. If I insulted anyone by my reply I apologize! I did not intend to say I disagree with what original50 said or intended. I thought it was a discussion and his opinion. I am sure that the Exums know more than I will ever think of knowing in the properties of oil and it's best uses. But even the Exum's couldn't get anything through my thick skull. My feelings on oil are probably based on the whuppin I took when I bought the wrong oil and my old man let me know in no uncertain terms what oil we would ALWAYS use. I am sorry if what I said chased someone from this forum, I never meant to do that. I have found this place to be incredibly helpful in the short time I have been visiting. Sorry


      • #18
        I'm still a believer in synthetic oils (either Mobil 1 or Red Line). But when it comes to feeding a fresh engine or cam, I always listen to the builder/manufacturer for the first round of fluids. I guess I'm just an idiot[)]. But I've never had an engine or camshaft failure either.

        Tom - Valrico, FL

        1964 Studebaker Daytona

        Tom - Bradenton, FL

        1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2514.10)
        1964 Studebaker Commander - 170 1V, 3-Speed w/OD


        • #19
          For me, the reduced levels of zinc in modern oils has been a concern to me for several years. Motorcycle engines with a unitized crankcase-transmission use the same engine oil to lubricate the transmission and for several years there has been concern about accelerated transmission wear. It seems that maybe I should be using the same CI-4 oil I use in my diesel tractors in my bike rather than just a CD or CF oil. Then again, *** bike engines and transmissions tend to be overbuilt and I've yet to have a problem, so maybe the potential tranny wear is mostly a concern on modified or hard ridden machines.

          And Don, if you're still there, don't get so bent out of shape over something so trivial. I'm sure it's not trivial to you and I don't blame you for wanting to protect your rather sizable investment. And as you implied, if everyone that's not following Thurman's sage advice have engines flying apart, well, that's their problem. No insult intended whatsoever, but you remind me of myself last year when I talked myself blue in the face trying to keep my oldest son on the straight and narrow. Very frustrating to say the least and I finally resigned myself to shutting up letting him screw his life up himself. The problem with a kid having a 146 IQ is that while it's true they're smarter than many people, their fallacy is believing they're smarter than everyone. Fortunately, he's finally started figuring that out. So Don, my advice is there's a time to stop talking and instead, stand back and watch while nature take its course. Only then will you figure out if you were barking up the right tree or not.


          • #20

            SH- For 1994 Gasoline Engine Service

            Classification SH was adopted in 1992 and recommended for gasoline engines in passenger cars and light trucks starting in 1993 model year. This category supercedes the performance requirements of API SG specification for 1989-1992 models, which is now obsolete. Applications that call for an API service classification SG can use the SH specification. The specification addresses issues with deposit control, oxidation, corrosion, rust and wear and replaces.

            SJ- For 1997 Gasoline Engine Service

            Classification SJ was adopted in 1996 and recommended for gasoline engines in passenger cars and light trucks starting in 1997 model year. Applications specifying API SH can use the newer API SJ service classification. Note that where applicable certain letters in the sequence will be skipped to prevent confusion with other standards. In this case, SI was skipped since industrial oils are currently rated according to SI classifications.

            SL- For 2001 Gasoline Engine Service

            Recommended for gasoline engines in passenger cars and light trucks starting in July 2001. SL oils are engineered to provide improved high temperature deposit control and lower oil consumption. Applications specifying API SJ can use the new API SL service classification. Note that some SL rated oils may also meet the latest ILSAC specification and/or qualify as energy conserving. SL is the latest specification.

            SM- For 2004 and newer Gasoline Engine Service Automotive Engines (Current Spec)

            This specification was introduced in Nov. 2004. SM oils are engineered to provide improved oxidation resistance, improved deposit and wear protection and improved low temperature performance. Note that some SM rated motor oils may also meet the current ILSAC specification.

            CF-For 1994 Off-Road Indirect Injected Diesel Engine Service

            API Service Category CF denotes service typical of off-road, indirect injected diesel engines and other diesel engines that use a broad range of fuel types, including those using fuel with higher sulfur content (over 0.5% wt sulfur fuel). Effective control of piston deposits, wear and corrosion of copper-containing bearings is essential for these engines, which may be naturally aspirated, turbocharged or supercharged. Oils designated for this service may also be used when API Service Category CD or CE is recommended. CF is a current specification.

            CF-2- FOR 1994 Severe Duty 2-Stroke Cycle Diesel Engine Service

            API Service Category CF-2 denotes service typical of two-stroke cycle engines (such as Detroit Diesel) requiring highly effective control over cylinder and ring-face scuffing and deposits. Oils designated for this service have been in existence since 1994 and may also be used when API Service Category CD-II is recommended. These oils do not necessarily meet the requirements of CF or CF-4, unless they pass the test and performance requirements for these categories. CF-2 is a current specification.

            CF-4CG-4- For 1995 Severe Duty Diesel Engine Service

            API Service Category CG-4 describes oils
            Tom - Bradenton, FL

            1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2514.10)
            1964 Studebaker Commander - 170 1V, 3-Speed w/OD


            • #21
              Well said, John. There's no need to get so hotted up - after all, this is a discussion forum. We're all free to disagree with each other - but we're not free to be uncivil. We've all got the same goal in mind: to care for and preserve our cars. Different folks choose to take different approaches to doing that, but it doesn't mean they're mortal enemies.


              Clark in San Diego
              '63 F2/Lark Standard

              Clark in San Diego | '63 Standard (F2) "Barney" |


              • #22
                Diesel and Gasoline Engines
                64 Champ long bed V8
                55/53 Studebaker President S/R
                53 Hudson Super Wasp Coupe


                • #23


                  • #24
                    Talk about narrowed minded! Yes you put in alot of research in an area you must be having trouble with. You passed along info you know to be true and intended it to benefit all who read your post. Yes, Mr Exum knows more about oil than I will ever know or intend to know. He has more degrees after his name than I will ever have or my kids may ever have; perhaps you do also. I for one never said he or you were wrong and I am sure you are correct. If having over 30 years of field experience with all types of engines under harsh dusty conditions with a lack of regular maintenance during the busiest times of our years. When oil changes are needed most and done the least due to other demands on time has made me a loyalist to an oil that has served me very well then I stand guilty of being the idiot you accuse me of being. I will continue to be that idiot as long as my equipment continues to run and provide for the 4 families our small business supports. If not for equipment serving us well and that includes the oils we use to maintain that equipment, my business would cease to be. I wouldn't expect or try to persuade you to use the Rottella T that I will continue to use regardless of the additive change and would not be upset if you did not agree with my opinion,(you don't) which I think is based on sound judgement also, experience is a great teacher. To call other people names, to rant and be mad that others have opinions that don't agree with yours is childish to say the least. I find it hard not to retaliate to the name calling, I resent it! You don't know me and although you may very well be right in your assesment of me being an idiot you have stepped over a line that should not be crossed in any forum let alone this one. It is okay not to agree with each other it is not okay to get personal, no one did with you. Talk about narrow minded.


                    • #25
                      "I'm gonna hang around so that I can someday say, "I told you so" when yaw wouldn't listen now "

                      Geez Don. This is a forum, not a dictators pulpit. Chill out.

                      Miscreant adrift in
                      the BerStuda Triangle

                      1957 Transtar 1/2ton
                      1960 Larkvertible V8
                      1958 Provincial wagon
                      1953 Commander coupe

                      No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.


                      • #26
                        I agree with sntsftbll, there's business and then there's personal. If you tell me that you consider what I believe is wrong, that's fine. Tell me I'm wrong for believing what I believe and that's personal. Don, I believe you to be a very intelligent, logical, analytical minded person. In fact, you come across as being much like my father who just happened to be a perfectionist among other things. And while he was seldom wrong, his flaw was thinking he could never be wrong. As Mr. Biggs put it, chill out. I'm sure your blood pressure will go down, you'll live much longer and therefore be able to enjoy your cars much longer. Besides, your input can be of benefit to all of us but please let everyone make and express their own opinion. An old man once told me, "Opinions are like rear ends, everyone has one and they're all different".


                        • #27
                          quote:Originally posted by Swifster

                          I find that discussions on oil, filters and gasoline usually fall into the same catagory as talking about politics, religion and sex. Everyone has their own ideas of what works and what doesn't. And I don't think I'd ever be able to change anyones views on any of the six subjects listed above anymore than someone could change mine.

                          Hmmm, let me post this one more time. And as Dick mentioned, include spark plugs in the above list .

                          Tom - Valrico, FL

                          1964 Studebaker Daytona

                          Tom - Bradenton, FL

                          1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2514.10)
                          1964 Studebaker Commander - 170 1V, 3-Speed w/OD


                          • #28
                            My personal experiences with oils stems from actual full on race Oval trackers that pull down 7500 RPMS all day long. So far one of the finest oils Ive used was based on Timken pull testing. The Oil was made by southwest petroluem products, SWEPCO. Its availiable in graphite formula, I use this along with GM OES suppliment. Another very good product is Castrol syntec, inspite of what you hear, this is a very good synthetic oil. The timken testing is not always a fair guide either, We dont see steel on steel parts in race engines other than roller tappets/cams. Aluminum parts such as bearings piston skirts and also piston rings live better with most high end synthetic race oils. I have used rottella T aswell, however I find it to be a very good oil when you use all of your throttle. Because rottella sheds heat so well, like EOS additive it is not the greatest product to use in gasoline motors on the street on a steady basis. Some of the new "Zero" weight race oils have been developed and show spectacular merrit. At Bonneville last August a few cars were running it. It has proven to shed heat at greater rate without any buildup of deposits and especially at ring land areas. New things are happening in oils, and no matter what you see and hear use a product that is tailored to your specific needs. Any SAE engine oil of high rating is good for your Stude, Keep it clean. Tom Osborne


                            • #29


                              • #30
                                Interesting site Don, but I read only a few Synthetic supporters and mostly the Old Shell Rotella T API Spec. CI-4 and even the new CJ-4 is considered to be one of the highest levels of ZDDP additives available. One states that Synthetics have none, only substitutes. Some day we will know the truth as to which ones really protect our cams & lifters, I hope not the hard way!

                                Studebakers Northwest
                                Ferndale, WA
                                Second Generation Stude Driver,
                                Proud '54 Starliner Owner