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  • Relark
    replied
    quote:Originally posted by ChampTrucking

    The front sheet metal all bolts to the u shaper radiator holder,and would be called the core support AFAIK.
    Thanks for the heads-up Champ. Not sure if it would come out without removing the fenders. Only need 1/4 in. off each side, not disturbing the spot welds. I started trimming the support with a die grinder today, but ran out of time. I have good access with the grille out. Keep ya posted.........Art

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  • ChampTrucking
    replied
    The front sheet metal all bolts to the u shaper radiator holder,and would be called the core support AFAIK.

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  • Relark
    replied
    Got the radiator out today, need to trim 1/4 in. off each side of the support for the alum rad.. The job would be much easier if the support was out of the car. Is it practical to remove it as the weight of the front end sheet metal seems to be resting on the support? While it is out, I would lenghten each side 1" to drop the rad for better clearance at the top.

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  • Relark
    replied
    Got the radiator out today, need to trim 1/4 in. off each side of the support for the alum rad.. The job would be much easier if the support was out of the car. Is it practical to remove it as the weight of the front end sheet metal seems to be resting on the support? While it is out, I would lenghten each side 1" to drop the rad for better clearance at the top.

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  • Relark
    replied
    quote:Originally posted by Kurt

    I too had this same problem with my "warmed up" 289. I tried differnt fans, shrouds, etc. I looked at having my original radiator recored, as I figured it was most of the problem. No one in my area would even mess with it as they all said it had an obsolete core. They called it a "bucket head" or something like that. So I bought a universal aluminum radiator from Summit. Put a big pusher fan in front of it and tried it out. It solved the problem totally. Runs 160-180 when hot. Less when cold outside. It pretty much fell into place. I am going to do a little more at some point to make it look more "finished". This winter I totally removed the factory fan and am going to try it with just the pusher. It has not been warm enough to really test, but I think it is going to work. If it does, then I will be getting rid of more weight on an already nose heavy car. One question though, if it does work, should I move the fan to the other side and make it a puller? This fan can be wired to run either direction. I'll post some pics later.

    66 Commander R1 Clone
    51 Commander 4dr
    Wow, that's encouraging Kurt. Which car do you have it in?
    I read somewhere that elec. fans work best as a puller. Probably because the built-in shroud is now in backwards.
    In the Lark , the only choice I had was to put it in front of the radiator. Glad to hear that the old style rads had less cooling capacity for a given area. Guess the salesman wasn't just giving me a sales pitch. My new rad doesn't have mounting ears, I bought a channel from him that it will rest on the rad support. Looks like an easy install.
    Another thing, a lot of cars in the '70s to '80s had a chin spoiler (usually flat black) under the front bumper. I read this creates a low pressure area behind the rad, drawing the air in faster. Must be something to it, all the manufactures were using it.
    Check out the Stewart Performance website, excellent article on cooling systems and system mods.
    Now, if I just can get my car in the garage.............!

    Art

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  • Kurt
    replied
    I too had this same problem with my "warmed up" 289. I tried differnt fans, sdrouds, etc. I looked at having my original radiator recored, as I figured it was most of the problem. No one in my area would even mess with it as they all said it had an obsolete core. They called it a "bucket head" or something like that. So I bought a universal aluminum radiator from summit. Put a big pusher fan in front of it and tried it out. It solved the problem totally. Runs 160-180 when hot. Less when cold outside. It pretty much fell into place. I am going to do a little more at some point to make it look more "finished". This winter I totally removed the factory fan and am going to try it with just the pusher. It has not been warm enough to really test, but I think it is going to work. If it does, then I will be getting rid of more weight on an already nose heavy car. One question though, if it does work, should I move the fan to the other side and make it a puller? This fan can be wired to run either direction. I'll post some pics later.

    66 Commander R1 Clone
    51 Commander 4dr

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  • ChampTrucking
    replied
    PLEASE keep the info coming. I am going the same route with a cross flow aluminum radiator in my Heaterbaker.And I too will have to devise some mounts. I am just waiting for Spring to do it.Thanks.

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  • Relark
    replied
    I just came back from the Zephyrhills FL, car show, there were three vendors selling aluminum radiators. I talked to all of them, learned a lot. One recommended Stewart Performance for high flow water pumps. He said high flow is important, but flow slows way down at low speed. This is due to the pump being a centrifical design, rather than positive displacement. He claimed Stewart makes a hi-flo that pushes more water at low to idle speeds. (Google Stewart Performance, they have an Adobe format article about cooling systems that is very long and informative.) I did purchase an aluminum radiator from a Dillon Rad. representative, found his suggestions and experience very helpful. The price was right, $135 out the door, USA made and no epoxy, nice welds, crossflow style. He mentioned the cooling tubes in old style rads. weren't as efficent and probably my rad was pretty corroded inside. The width is right on, no mounting ears, but will mount on top and bottom channel. I'll keep ya posted.
    BTW wife frowned on moving the Crossfire out of the garage...Don't wanna die from mysterious food poisoning......Art

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  • ChampTrucking
    replied
    LOL Well we are getting light snow up here. Hoping for a few inches so I can plow up some money.

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  • Relark
    replied
    That explains my clearance problem. My blower is the long snout, I didn't remember the short shaft waterpump style. The Flex fan arrived yesterday along with a 1" spacer, I'll need a 2" to clear the blower belt. That puts it right into the radiator. Didn't have time to pull the rad. to see if it can be moved forward. Orig. Stude fan is flatter, will try that first. Also the elec. fan will hit the grille mounted on the front of the rad.! Lots of planning here. I'll contact Weiand to see about changing the snout.
    Mo' money.... Weather here in central FL cool and rainy, I guess wife shouldn't mind if I pull her new Crossfire out of the garage to work on the Lark. Ya think?

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  • ChampTrucking
    replied
    Art. I have a 6 blade flex fan on my Lark with a T-Bow fan shroud/short high volume pump and 3 row radiator and still have the same cooling issues you have.You have to watch the fan pitch very carefully because one with steeply curved blades WILL hit the blower belt.I found out with the first fan.The fan I have now is off a friends prior race car motor. My blower is for a short water pump BTW. The darn blower puts too much heat into the motor. I was asking about the electric fan as a way around the problem. Maybe both fans would do it?

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  • Relark
    replied
    quote:Originally posted by sweetolbob

    Art

    I can't speak as an expert on the subject but my understanding of the purpose of a high volume water pump is to increase the flow and therefore pressure in the system to be sure all areas of the block get a good flow of coolant.

    That will fall apart if you move the coolant to rapidly through the radiator as poor heat transfer will occur. My guess is that most well designed pumps are set to provide better cooling without the radiator problems in a normally designed cooling system.

    Here's the one I put on the 355 SBC (non-blown) in my Avanti.

    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRO-67265/

    So far my problem has been getting it to heat above 145 deg with a 195 deg thermostat. Of course it's 20 deg in the pole barn and I've got a large aluminum radiator. I had to block off 80 % of the radiator to get it hot enough to set the timing.

    At the price from Summit it could be an inexpensive experiment.

    Good luck, Love the car.

    Bob

    ,
    Thanks Bob, Good lookin' iron you have there, too! 20F around here in central FL is very rare. I'll try the Flex fan first, it stays around 190F (85-90 outside temp.) if I can keep it rolling around 30mph +. The alum. pump sounds like the next step if I need a little more cooling. The extra volume pump may be intended for a larger radiator, but it's cheap to find out......

    Thanks, Art

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  • sweetolbob
    replied
    Art

    I can't speak as an expert on the subject but my understanding of the purpose of a high volume water pump is to increase the flow and therefore pressure in the system to be sure all areas of the block get a good flow of coolant.

    That will fall apart if you move the coolant to rapidly through the radiator as poor heat transfer will occur. My guess is that most well designed pumps are set to provide better cooling without the radiator problems in a normally designed cooling system.

    Here's the one I put on the 355 SBC (non-blown) in my Avanti.

    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRO-67265/

    So far my problem has been getting it to heat above 145 deg with a 195 deg thermostat. Of course it's 20 deg in the pole barn and I've got a large aluminum radiator. I had to block off 80 % of the radiator to get it hot enough to set the timing.

    At the price from Summit it could be an inexpensive experiment.

    Good luck, Love the car.

    Bob

    ,

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  • Relark
    replied
    Putting a straight edge across the waterpump pulley, I have 1 1/2" plus, measured to the radiator. I ordered a 14" Flex-O-lite fan and 1" spacer from Jegs. That should give me a good 1/2" clearance at the bottom. The engine tilts back more at the top, so with careful planning, I can tilt the radiator forward at the bottom 1/2" for additonal clearance. The short shaft pump would put the fan into the blower drive belt. I imagine I could get a shorter blower snout and drive pulleys, but the cost may be prohibitive.
    Any info on gaining cooling through a higher volume pump?

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  • Relark
    replied
    I'll check it out a little later today and see if the short shaft pump will clear the blower belt. As I remember, the fan would then hit the belt. That would be great if I could use a Flex-O-Lite fan with a shrould.
    I've read that when the coolant flow through the radiator is increased, the coolant doesn't have enough time to transfer the heat to the air but I don't know this from experience. Restrictor washers are sold to replace the t-stat to limit flow speed on circle track cars, but maybe on the street it's a different situation. So, a higher volume short-shaft pump may be the answer, hopefully.

    Art

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