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changing a Dana 44 center section

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  • kelmbaker
    replied
    Update on the #44. I took it to the rear end shop. Had the TT and rear professionally done. Much $$$ spent. Forget about not having the drums set back properly. The shop owner said he's done 100's of tapered #44's, they will do fine with just leaving them loose. All I'll say is horsepoop. IF you ream out the lug holes some you can get the drum to sit flat. I just don't like it at all.The brakes were a mess. I'm missing the emergency brake lever on the drivers side. Looks to be a '57 up rear set up, 10" brakes. Dows anyone have this lever they want to sell? Thanks.

    Kelly J. Marion

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  • grobb284
    replied
    Here's a link for technical information right from Dana on the 44 assemblies, how to set them up and how to correct the pattern. The correct ones for yours (and others) applications are well worth printing out.


    http://www2.dana.com/expertforms/depdf.aspx?prod=AXL

    1963 Studebaker Avanti: LS1 motor and T-56 transmission have been moved rearward, set up as a two seat coupe with independent rear suspension.

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  • kelmbaker
    replied
    Thanks. You can tell my kids are grown (no Grandchildren yet). I'm talking about differentials on Christmas. I might just mosy out to the workshop and look things over. I'm going to call a local differential shop and see what they'll charge to switch out the center section, re-pack and check all the bearings etc.. But the budget is tight for toys right now.

    Merry Christmas and a happy new year everyone.

    Kelly J. Marion

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  • buddymander
    replied
    You are installing a different carrier. Using the shims that came with EITHER carrier isn't going to work. You have to adjust the sideways positioning of the carrier when you install it into a different housing; period. If the spacers place the ring too close to the pinion, you won't even be able to install it. You should first install the new carrier without the ring gear just to see how many spacers it would take altogether to snug the carrier in there. Next, install it with the ring gear attached, but put most spacers on the tooth side . See how much clearance it feels like you have and begin switching spacers from the tooth side to the opposite side until you hardly feel any movement between the ring and pinion. But you do need to feel a few thousandths. Fill it with oil and put in a small amount of posi additive. Drive it and see if it whines speeding up or slowing down. If it whines speeding up, the ring is too close to the pinion. If it whines slowing down, the ring is too far away from the opinion. Old cars whine when slowing down because the bearing opposite the tooth side takes most of the load and wears out first; moving the carrier away from the pinion.

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  • kelmbaker
    replied
    The man who gave me this advice is a well known Studebaker mechanic. I have never used his services, I was just buying a part from him. He knows of what he speaks. I suffer from CRS, so I was checking if anyone had heard of this before and possibly restate the process. The original ring and pinion will be staying together in the same case and the shims will not be disturbed. So the fore/aft clearance should be the same. The side to side measurement is adjusted with shims between the side bearings and the differential itself.He was saying put these shims back in exactly as found and I should be OK. I might try it, see if I can do it cleanly, and use the marking paint to check tooth mesh. If it looks screwy I can always take it to a shop. Thanks for the comment, please contact me if you have any experience with this, good or bad.

    Kelly J. Marion

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  • leyrret
    replied
    I done more Dana rears than I could ever remember to count and you can get lucky though it rarely happens. I recall doing a Dana 60 under the truck using a used ring and pinion and when I put in it was dead on pattern. AS I recall this was with the original carrier and bearings so preload wasn't an issue.(It's still running 10-12 yrs later) I have never used a spreader, set up bearings or a press. I use a puller with a bearing splitter to pull bearings on carrier, micrometer for shims and dial indicator with magnetic base(Though I can almost tell clearance by feel). I have spent all day trying to get one right, but have done them in a just a few hours.

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  • grobb284
    replied
    It usually takes a day to set one up, or at least several evenings. An inch pound torque wrench, a case spreader, magnetic dial indicator, calipers, prussion blue, "set-up" bearings, and a hydraulic press are typically required.

    Dana has a good technical discussion on setting up a Dana 44 on their website. Pay particular attention on what to move for correcting the tooth pattern.

    It requires patience. There is no luck to it, nor is there "luckingout" with a setup in another housing or with a different carrier. Too many variables.





    1963 Studebaker Avanti: LS1 motor and T-56 transmission have been moved rearward, set up as a two seat coupe with independent rear suspension.

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  • bige
    replied
    I'm a little suspect of your mechanic. He should know that a DANA 44's "spacers" are under the carrier bearings and will travel with it and not be loose to "keep rack of".

    Before you re-assemble things make sure the axles work in the new carrier.

    ErnieR

    quote:Originally posted by kelmbaker

    The model 27 in my Commander is on borrowed time. I have a #44 out of a late model with finned drums, but still a tapered axle unit. I bought a twin track center "chunk" that was originally in a 3.31 unit. The 44 I have is an open 3.31. I bought a center section from a professional mechanic who has been turning wrenches for his livelihood for a long time. He told me to remove the open center section, keep track of the shims and where they go, change the ring gear from the open unit to the TT unit, and install the TT unit with the spacers in the same order and place as found. The differential should be already set up. He's done this many times, I never have.
    1) how hard is it to remove and install the center section with no specialized tools?
    2) has anyone done this that could give some pointers?
    3) is this something to take to a differential shop? My wife is limiting the budget so any money saved would be welcomed.
    Any observations would be appreciated.

    Kelly J. Marion

    R2 R5388 @ Macungie 2006________________ 1988 "Beater" Avanti

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  • leyrret
    replied
    I would try original advise but first I would put ring gear from open on TT unit(if it has bearings on it) and check pattern. You might get lucky. If it's off too much would then try original shims from open unit. When installing carrier back in to housing (if you don't have spreader) if preload is near correct you will have to cock bearing cups and drive it in with a soft mallet. If it falls in easily it is too loose. With a used r&p I try to get pattern to match original wear pattern. It helps to check backlash before you remove the open unit. When the new pattern matches old you should have original back lash. It's not difficult(though harder with used r&p) to get it together and not make noise but improper bearing preload and gear mesh effects longevity of unit. A properly set up unit lasts much longer but if your car doesn't get driven much it shouldn't be as critical.

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  • buddymander
    replied
    Oh man, I read the first one and when the guy got to the part about using white grease to set up the gears, he mentioned that he had never really done that himself. Datz wah am talkinbout. Sometimes you think you're dealing with pros and you just ain't.

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  • DEEPNHOCK
    replied
    Setting up the R&P and carrier on a Dana 44 is not terribly hard.
    But like any setup, there are trick and tips, and do's and don'ts.
    Here's a link to let you see the basics...
    http://tinyurl.com/Dana44SetupSites

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  • ChampTrucking
    replied
    I did this with a 3:07 TT rear end and a 3:31 Open rear. They were both flanged axles differentials. I had a good 3:07 Twin Track I wanted to save,and I bought what was supposed to be a good 3:31 flanged open rear from a gent on the old Alt.Autos newsgroup to replace a tapered 3:73 tapered axle that was buzzing my little 194 six too hard @ 60 MPH. When I opened that "good" used rear end I saw the pinion gear shaft keeper bolt on the 3:31 differential had sheared off the bolt head at some point,and the pin had wallowed out the carrier so the pin was real loose,and the keeper bolt had been drilled out and a roll pin hammered into the hole to retain said pinion gear shaft!! So I took the TT carrier from the 3:07 Rear and kept track of the shim amounts on both sides of the carrier and unbolted the ring gear. I then removed the wasted open carrier from the 331 rear,keeping track of the shim amounts on both sides of the carrier for this rear as well.I bolted the :331 ring gear onto the 3:07 TT carrier and put it back into the 331 differential. The shims on the 3:07 TT rear had the ring gear/carrier .023 deeper into the pinion than the 3:31 open differential,so I went ahead and reused the shims that were original to the 3:31 rear end,and reassembled it.
    I was able to determine the shim depths and adding the numbers on the shims.I figured a bit looser was better than a bit too tight as far as ring gear/pinion depth.It worked extremely well and had no bad noises or whine. The rear was installed into the 64 Commander 2 door I used to have.The motor was a 194 with a 3 on the tree,and that rear end suffered thru many full throttle power shifts and some heavy wheel hop on a few occasions and NEVER made a peep. I do add GM posi traction supplement to all my TT rear ends.If the shim totals are not too dramatic in difference I can not see why it would not work.

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  • buddymander
    replied
    I hardly ever have good luck taking anything to a shop and relying on them to "Do it right". Unless you DIY, you will never KNOW if it was done right or not. When I had a tranny shop, I had cars come in with loose rearends all the time. So often that I started measuring the amount the yoke would turn. I remember a light blue ford LTD station wagon with a 351M and a C4 trans that had 1/4 turn play. I think most used pinions will be close enough to the correct depth, but variations in the ring side to side is a given. I've changed a lot of ring and pinions (used ones) and never reset the depth on the pinion, but always reset the ring. Now might be the time to learn how to read gear markings. It could probably be done in less time than it takes to run it all over to a shop and wait. And then you really never know how "perfect" of a job they're going to do..cuz..it's "just an old car".

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  • StudeRich
    replied
    You can see why bige is saying in so many words: "not so fast"! [:0]

    Your friend's help is sounding like he is saying: save the shims from the keeper housing and install them on the "new" Pinion gear, so now, only one half of the "fit" equation is correct! It MAY work, but it's a toss-up!

    Also sometimes you can easily REMOVE the complete Carrier Unit from the housing, BUT putting it back is another thing entirely! It MAY require the book required "Spreader Tool"!

    You could try it, and if you don't get lucky, end up taking it all to a 4 Wheel Drive Shop to set it up properly.

    StudeRich

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  • DEEPNHOCK
    replied
    CASO diff methods will cost you in the long run.

    Just set it up and read the gear pattern.
    That will tell you what you need to know to set it up right.
    There's more to it than just tight and loose.
    There's in and out as well.
    And two different housings will give you different numbers...every time.
    If you look at the end of the pinion, it has the pinion depth numbers that will tell you where to set the pinion...
    If you have the right tools and know how to use them.

    Fortunatley, there are a ton of 4x4 shops that do Dana 44's all day long.
    Why screw up a good R&P just to save a few bucks?
    Just do it right.

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