Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

King pin weirdness.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • King pin weirdness.

    I'm working on a '60 Lark that I got from Dick Steinkamp. The car had been T-boned on the driver's side, knocking it hard into the curb. Both the right rear axle and right front spindle were bent. Dick replaced the bent axle, and I have since renewed the rear brakes. Rear axle is good to go, now. By the way, I knew going into the deal that the car was a fixer-upper. I have no beef with Dick, not at all.

    While I had it on the hoist, I decided to change the bent spindle. Pulled the drum and brake off; it needs new shoes here, too. There was between 1 and 2 degrees of bend in the spindle, such that it caused more than the normal amount of positive camber on that wheel. No sign whatsoever of bent, cracked, or otherwise damaged control arms, frame rail, or crossmember. I figured that I might as well replace both the steering knuckle and the kingpin. Stude kingpins have several built-in bends, and it is real hard to tell if one is true or not. And I have a supply of good take-outs. So I rummaged in my parts barn, and found a knuckle, and a king pin, both bearing the same forging numbers as the parts I removed.

    Well, that doggone kingpin does not come close to fitting! It acts like the keyway where it fits the lower trunnion is clocked wrong. With the kingpin fully seated in the lower trunnion, the pin for the upper trunnion has few degrees more outboard twist at the front than is needed to line it up with the holes in the upper control arm.

    Both new and old kingpins bear the forging number 553760, but one has an "R" suffix (the new one), and the shoulder on the new one where the thrust bearing seats is narrower and more tapered. I think that was done to to allow for the installation of disc brakes, IIRC. And the other difference is that the numbers read from top to bottom on one of them, and from bottom to top on the other.

    I really doubt that I could, nor should, apply enough force to simply jam the upper trunnion pin into place. That would put all the trunnion bushings in a heck of a bind if I did manage to achieve the impossible. So I guess I have two options: either reuse the old kingpin, which is probably OK, as its thinnest section is a lot stouter than than the outer end of the spindle, which what got bent; or else dig further into my stash and find an exact equivalent.

    I was just wondering if anyone else here had run into this situation. Exactly how many types of kingpins exist between 1951 and 1966?

    Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands
    Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

  • #2
    I think you have the 1553760 that MIGHT BE the new one that fits only '61 to '66. The '51 to '60 one would be a 533XXX with a different arc for the new less Negative Caster setting alignment specs.

    UPDATE:Ok, the parts catalog says the Part Number of the '59-'60 Kingpin is: 533762 Rt. & 763 Lt. (may be the same as casting # or close) but definitely would have 6 digits.

    The late '61-'66 ones are 1551414 Rt. & 415 Lt. (Seven digits) So if it's 533760 it IS [u]close</u> to the [u]part number</u> for early king pins.

    None of that REALLY explains why it won't fit however, unless the angle (alignment) of the "A" arms is off more than eyeballing it can observe.
    You should be able to replace a Kingpin or "update" to the newer Pins, as everything else is the same.

    StudeRich
    StudeRich
    Second Generation Stude Driver,
    Proud '54 Starliner Owner

    Comment


    • #3
      I might have misremembered the number. 533762 is probably it. But the two ARE different. I do have several of the late type, 1551414 and 15.

      Were there different kingpins used in C/K cars? Some of my parts stash comes from parted-out Hawks.

      Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands
      Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

      Comment


      • #4
        quote:Originally posted by gordr

        /Cut/Were there different kingpins used in C/K cars? Some of my parts stash comes from parted-out Hawks.
        Gord, the Kingpins are the same on all models. And I checked that the Kingpins ARE the same '55-'58 as the '59-'60.

        HOWEVER! I just found out that the 527988 & 989 Knuckle (spindle) used on EARLY (Serial #'s given) '55 C,K & D (Wagon) is also used on '57H-Y (long wheelbase) & also all '57L (Packard)!

        ALL else ('55-'58) uses 531980 & 981, whew! Who knew! [:0] I have no idea what that is all about, but it tells you there were 2 types on '55-'58's. [:0]

        StudeRich
        StudeRich
        Second Generation Stude Driver,
        Proud '54 Starliner Owner

        Comment


        • #5
          Well, this gets more and more confusing. I do know the early king pins, 533762, are visibly different from the 1551414. The latter has less offset at the top, looks straighter overall.

          And I did see I had two different knuckles; there's some variation in the web between the king pin bushing area and the backing plate flange. Might be related to camber setting?

          If I don't have to leave for work tomorrow morning, I'll go out to the shop and double-check those numbers. Will also check the numbers on the left side of the car. Could be, years ago, it had a wrong part installed?

          Next question: could it be that different lower trunnions are used? Location of the keyway in the lower trunnion would affect how the top of the king pin is clocked relative to the upper trunnion pin axis. That's what's "out" right now. Viewed from the rear, the axis of the holes in the upper A-arm for the upper trunnion bushings points, say, 20 degrees to the right. The axis of the pin itself, as determined by the king pin's fitment in the lower trunnion, is maybe 5 degrees more.

          Anyway, right now I have 2 king pins, with the same forging number, that are visibly and distinctly different. I guess I can assume that forging numbers don't necessarily equate to part numbers. I knew that was the case with casting numbers, but I was hoping that forged parts were more consistent in that regard, since they are usually forged pretty darn close to their finished dimensions.

          I think if the upper (or lower) A-arm were bent enough to create the degree of misalignment I'm seeing, there would be a visible kink or buckle in the stamping. And the A-arm bushings are pretty fair, too.

          I'd guess maybe the two types of knuckle '55 to '58 might be power steering vs manual steering? IIRC, the Saginaw in-box power steering was abandoned in '59.

          Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands
          Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

          Comment


          • #6
            quote:Originally posted by gordr

            Well, this gets more and more confusing. I do know the early king pins, 533762, are visibly different from the 1551414. The latter has less offset at the top, looks straighter overall.

            And I did see I had two different knuckles; there's some variation in the web between the king pin bushing area and the backing plate flange. Might be related to camber setting?

            If I don't have to leave for work tomorrow morning, I'll go out to the shop and double-check those numbers. Will also check the numbers on the left side of the car. Could be, years ago, it had a wrong part installed?

            Next question: could it be that different lower trunnions are used? Location of the keyway in the lower trunnion would affect how the top of the king pin is clocked relative to the upper trunnion pin axis. That's what's "out" right now. Viewed from the rear, the axis of the holes in the upper A-arm for the upper trunnion bushings points, say, 20 degrees to the right. The axis of the pin itself, as determined by the king pin's fitment in the lower trunnion, is maybe 5 degrees more.

            Anyway, right now I have 2 king pins, with the same forging number, that are visibly and distinctly different. I guess I can assume that forging numbers don't necessarily equate to part numbers. I knew that was the case with casting numbers, but I was hoping that forged parts were more consistent in that regard, since they are usually forged pretty darn close to their finished dimensions.

            I think if the upper (or lower) A-arm were bent enough to create the degree of misalignment I'm seeing, there would be a visible kink or buckle in the stamping. And the A-arm bushings are pretty fair, too.

            I'd guess maybe the two types of knuckle '55 to '58 might be power steering vs manual steering? IIRC, the Saginaw in-box power steering was abandoned in '59.

            Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands
            I believe the actual trunnion itself never changed, but the lower knuckle is definitely different early and late. I'm not sure what the differences are, but the "early" knuckle had a six digit casting number and the later one had a seven digit casting number. I'd clean all the grease off and definitely make sure that you have the right one for your spindle.

            nate

            --
            55 Commander Starlight
            http://members.cox.net/njnagel
            --
            55 Commander Starlight
            http://members.cox.net/njnagel

            Comment


            • #7
              Well, a little progress, and a little light shed.

              I removed the 533762R king pin, that manifestly did not fit. It's quite a bit straighter at the top than the original 533762, and I'm pretty sure the keyway is clocked different. (That's a hard thing to measure.)

              I did dome further rooting in the barn, and came up with a complete right side front suspension assembly from a '56 Champion (thank you, street rodder). It proved to have a 533762 king pin in it. I disassembled the whole mess, and compared the kingpin to the original from the Lark. No apparent difference. BIG difference with the 533762R. The latter looks a lot like the 1551414 in its overall shape. I'm wondering if maybe, when they needed a kingpin compatible with disc brakes, they dusted off the tooling for the old kingpin, and revised it, and gave it that "R" number?

              Anyway, I'm going to double-check dimensions between the two instances I have of the 533762, and if I can detect no sign of damage to it, I'll go with the one original to the car, since I KNOW it fits. I can always start replacing stuff at some future time if I can't make it take an alignment.

              If I can manage to take some photos that clearly show the differences, I'll post them.

              Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands
              Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

              Comment


              • #8
                Hmmm... I wonder if the "R" is a "Replacement", either aftermarket or otherwise. It could be a MOOG, or other brand of the day, quality replacement part for the late kingpin but with the wrong part number. [:0]

                Most studebaker foundry parts, have the tiny scripted Wheel logo with an "S" in it.

                StudeRich
                StudeRich
                Second Generation Stude Driver,
                Proud '54 Starliner Owner

                Comment

                Working...
                X