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My Street Version Port Injection for the '55

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  • Fuel System: My Street Version Port Injection for the '55

    A few of you have expressed interest in this project that I am working on for the '55. I have also posted these pictures in the Racing Forum as well. So far here is the work that was done to push this forward:





    The manifold is the late style manifold. These things can be found literally everywhere and can be had for pennies. I chose this route because, just like some of my HO engines, I wanted a mass produced part whereas if I mess up, it's not a big loss and I am able to find another relatively easily. The rails and the injectors are off of Ebay. They are basically aluminum blanks that can be milled, drilled, tapped, etc. The bungs are made for a fairly standard size injector. The rails are somewhat larger, which I'll have to adapt later on. I believe they are in the 11/16 range diameter, and can support 1100 hp. What I did was drill a hole in each port, and I used a jig I fashioned to angle them at the valve. For a street application this is probably overkill(however I like going the extra step with this stuff, lol). The bungs have to line up precisely, which is why I used a jig and guide plate as the rails and injectors are all in line with each other.
    I used some Ford 33lb injectors that came off of a Towncar, and its accompanying throttle body. This is somewhat important, matching injectors and throttle body to the engine. Too small and the engine will lean out too early from lack of fuel. Too big and you could inadvertently wash down the cylinders and kill the motor. Both the injectors and manifold came off of the Towncar's 4.6L engine, and its a standard widely used injector, so for the time being I won't presume any leaning or power problems will erupt when its coupled to the 289. For simplicity sake I just mounted the throttle body atop the mounting flange using a spacer. The only thing is the Ford emblem is flipped upside down because this particular throttle body mounts to the end of a TPI type of manifold with the throttle body pointing forward. It still does the job nonetheless.
    For a fuel pump, I am going to either get a Walbro unit or I can chase down an Econoline external pump as they should have enough pressure to handle the injectors. I may not be able to use the Holley carb electric fuel pumps as the pressure is too low. I will also need a regulator and some gauges to adjust the pressure, and the lines will be steel and high pressure rubber line. I am also still aways off from getting the Megasquirt unit and the sensors, so for now we're still gradually acquiring parts and pieces. [8D]

    Edit:
    I cheated a little when I drilled out the bungs and rails. I have some of my grandparents machinist tools and measuring devices, which means I have tools that most of the populace has long forgotten about, so I had access to some very big drill bits to get the job done. The work was also pretty physical as this was done using not much more than a drill press and a hand drill.


    [IMG=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/55%20Studebaker%20Commander%20Streetrod%20Project/P1010531-1.jpg[/IMG=left]
    [IMG=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/55%20Studebaker%20Commander%20Streetrod%20Project/P1010550-1.jpg[/IMG=left]
    [IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/Ex%20Studebaker%20Plant%20Locomotive/P1000578-1.jpg[/IMG=right]
    [IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201964%20Studebaker%20Commander%20R2/P1010168.jpg[/IMG=right]
    1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
    1963 Studebaker Daytona Hardtop with no engine or transmission
    1950 Studebaker 2R5 w/170 six cylinder and 3spd OD
    1955 Studebaker Commander Hardtop w/289 and 3spd OD and Megasquirt port fuel injection(among other things)

  • #2
    I believe I like this type of post the best. It's something you don't see every day and gives unique options to other forum members.

    Thanks much for posting and PLEASE!!! continue to post your progress.

    Bob

    ,

    Comment


    • #3
      When you get a little time...explain to us simple minds just how many sensors will be required, where in the system they are placed, and how and what they do to adjust fuel and air delivery as demand changes. (I know, I know, I should read up on this on my own, but you could save us the effort!)

      John Clary
      Greer, SC

      Life... is what happens as you are making plans.
      SDC member since 1975
      John Clary
      Greer, SC

      SDC member since 1975

      Comment


      • #4
        Well, I'd like to use the Megasquirt system. As far as sensors I know what will be used is:
        Map(Manifold Absolute Pressure) sensor: That's found on the computer itself. If you had a GM like I had with the Sunbird it was found on the manifold as a separate component. It's kinda like a fancier version of how a vacuum gauge is arranged. On my pickup I used a Map sensor to run the boost gauge. It's also used to supply information to the computer. For me it will also be key to supply information on how much pressure is in the manifold so it can inject the correct amount of fuel if the car comes under boost.

        TPS: In my setup thats found on the throttle body. That tells the computer how far open the valve is opened and whether it is necessary to inject more fuel or not. When fully opened it provides maximum air delivery, which provides maximum fuel delivery. When partially closed it provides just the necessary amount to keep the car happily idling.

        Coolant sensor(runs the temp gauge ordinarily): This sensor now replaces the thermostatic choke setup on the carb. It used, along with an external outside air temperature sensor, to determine the amount of time the car needs to warmup. It's also wired to the fast idle solenoid on startup. Usually the outside and inside sensor are the same sensor so there is not a need for another sensor.

        Oxygen sensor: LOL, if yall had to replace one of these,you know how much of a pain the butt these are on stock vehicles. These are the sensors that litter the exhaust system back to catalytic converter and are of high importance. These are found in the exhaust manifold and they not only help with tuning the car, they also determine if the car is running too rich, too lean, or just right. It can also command the computer to inject more or less fuel from this point, and helps determine an AF(air/fuel) ratio and a table for the megasquirt system. If you wanna go the CASO right, a narrowband sensor may work, but if you wanna tune many finer points a wideband is highly recommended. These sensors are also one of the main causes for poor running, as when these get fouled, they send only what they can read from the exhaust gases. I'd like to pick up an Innovate setup for this little project.
        Fast Idle Solenoid: When the car is cold it's an on or off sensor. It's coupled to the coolant sensor so that when the sensor detects the engine is warm, it shuts this solenoid off, releasing the throttle valve. I think the one I had on the ProJection unit was found under the linkage where your vacuum modulator would sit.
        Along with these, there's the accompanying wiring, relays, etc that get installed as well. These sensors usually all work in conjunction with each like the nerves and organs of the human body. Thus far I see probably two extra sensors that will need to be mounted, the oxygen and the map sensor. The map sensor shouldn't be a problem as its integrated into the computer.

        [IMG=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/55%20Studebaker%20Commander%20Streetrod%20Project/P1010531-1.jpg[/IMG=left]
        [IMG=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/55%20Studebaker%20Commander%20Streetrod%20Project/P1010550-1.jpg[/IMG=left]
        [IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/Ex%20Studebaker%20Plant%20Locomotive/P1000578-1.jpg[/IMG=right]
        [IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201964%20Studebaker%20Commander%20R2/P1010168.jpg[/IMG=right]

        1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
        1963 Studebaker Daytona Hardtop with no engine or transmission
        1950 Studebaker 2R5 w/170 six cylinder and 3spd OD
        1955 Studebaker Commander Hardtop w/289 and 3spd OD and Megasquirt port fuel injection(among other things)

        Comment


        • #5
          This is one of the best condensed explanations of a modern system I have ever read. Thanks a bunch! As far as the oxygen sensor...what are your thoughts about location? Do you have any ideas about protecting it from fouling? To me...it looks like you have some wonderful opportunities to experiment and have a load of fun at the same time.
          John Clary
          Greer, SC

          SDC member since 1975

          Comment


          • #6
            I'm guessing that you will make exhaust headers for this in order to mount the oxygen sensors?


            Brent's rootbeer racer.
            MN iron ore...it does your body good.
            sigpic
            In the middle of MinneSTUDEa.

            Comment


            • #7
              For oxygen sensors, this is probably one of those situations where you may get a million different responses. The sensor goes into a bung that is welded into the exhaust pipe. I think on average you would want it at the end of the collector, pointed to the left or right side. You don't want it in the bottom of the pipe because the sensor can be subject to rocks, bugs, snow, and the elements. You don't want it in the top because then it becomes a pain to get to. Ordinarily most people get one sensor, mount it in the pipe, and call it done. Usually its best to do it where the exhaust ports join at one point, which would be the collector. If you wanna get fancy and you have twin turbos, you can mount one in both collectors. If you're a stickler for super accurate AF ratios, you can mount them in the collector, midway in the exhaust, in front of the entry to the muffler, and so on, which is what many makes do now. What the computer does is it takes readings from all of these separate sensors and then it should spit out a general output to the FI about what and how much fuel to inject. I'd like to say, the more sensor, the more detailed things get. It also warrants to having to maintain all of the separate sensors as well, which from what I see, is what is driving some of our other members apepoo. It depends on what you wanna do with your system. You don't need an exhaust header(but it helps) as its just a hole with a sensor poking through it. I'd say to protect it from fouling, you can probably angle the bung, or get a thick bung so it doesn't thread clear into the pipe(this a WAG here). I should say that since the sensor is in a hostile carbon rich environment like the plugs, there is a certain level of unavoidability with the sensors(Yeah, they do go bad). One of the main causes is not only how much fuel is in the exhaust(like when you have you're flamethrower going), but how much cr** is present in the gas. An interesting note is I haven't yet seen a situation in our modern cars here where it warranted needing to replace an oxygen sensor yet and many of them are exceeding the 100k mile mark, but thats getting pretty presumptious there. A catalytic converter replacement, yes, but O2 sensors, not yet. We also drive em until they die as well, lol.
              1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
              1963 Studebaker Daytona Hardtop with no engine or transmission
              1950 Studebaker 2R5 w/170 six cylinder and 3spd OD
              1955 Studebaker Commander Hardtop w/289 and 3spd OD and Megasquirt port fuel injection(among other things)

              Comment


              • #8
                I've had to replace the O2 sensors in my 1996 F-150 4x4 with 300ci 6 cylinder with only 50,xxx miles at the time. Now it has just over 70,xxx miles and I'm getting O2 errors again. Perhaps its because I dont drive it enough? I had 2 near the engine and one I had to reach over the transmission to get to the top side of the exhaust pipe in front of the converter. Anyway, I'm not a fan of an abundance of electronic sensors but it is amazing what they can do.


                Brent's rootbeer racer.
                MN iron ore...it does your body good.
                sigpic
                In the middle of MinneSTUDEa.

                Comment


                • #9
                  My very inexperienced opinion is that the oxygen sensor could be installed in a thick spacer designed similar to the heat riser valves. If the bungs were drilled at an angle and the sensor a bit recessed, perhaps it would be somewhat self cleaning and less likely to foul.

                  John Clary
                  Greer, SC

                  Life... is what happens as you are making plans.
                  SDC member since 1975
                  John Clary
                  Greer, SC

                  SDC member since 1975

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Oxygen sensors require high temperatures to operate. The older ones with only 1 or 2 wires are put in the exhaust manifold near the collector for that reason. Some of them will have a heater element to get them up to operating temperature faster on cold starts or allow them to be put farther down the exhaust where things would otherwise be too cold. Those will have several wires with 2 for that heater. Without looking this up, my recollection is they need something like 700+ degrees. The heater elements can take a couple amps to operate.

                    The operating principle is sort of like a battery with the oxygen in the exhaust being the electrolyte or part of it. So, the voltage the "battery" generates is proportional to the amount of oxygen present. The narrow band ones have a "raw" output and basically will generate some voltage or not depending if there is oxygen there. If the engine is operating at "stoichiometry" where the air to fuel ratio is ideal for complete combustion then there should should be no oxygen. If too rich there is still no oxygen and too lean there will be some oxygen. But, the sensor output is such that its hard to tell how much. So, the engine computer will adjust the fuel injectors to get the signal from the oxygen sensor to flip back and forth between showing there is oxygen and no oxygen. This gets the engine to be running as close to ideal as it can. The computer can't tell how much past ideal into lean or rich it is so it keeps "dithering" around it. It will be doing this rapidly when the engine is running "closed loop". The wide band sensors in contrast have a amplifier or some other circuit with them that can show how much oxygen is there, not just that there is some. So, much finer control over the air/fuel ratio can be done. You don't see those narrow band sensors so much anymore since emissions regulations are so much tighter than back in the 80s. Also, the processing power on the engine computers is much much greater now than back then. There really wasn't the capability to handle the wideband sensor output with the computers used. Wideband ones have been around since the 90s though.

                    Jeff in ND

                    '53 Champion Hardtop

                    Jeff in ND

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Where's a good place to get a caso price on those weld in injector bungs? Also, how do I determine if I have a narrow or wide band O2 sensor?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Prior to discovering the bung on the turbo I was using, I had the same question on the bungs. One of the places you can go is when NAPA had the HELP section they had those spark plug anti foulers. The anti foulers were the same thread size and dimensions as the bungs and sensors sensors that are used on the Innovate setups. These anti foulers can be welded into the exhaust pipe and the sensors can thread into the anti fouler. The numbers that were used are

                        42002
                        42009

                        I cannot recall which one of these numbers is correct, but the sensor should be 18mmX1.5mm, so you'll need the 18mm spark plug anti foulers. You'll need to cut off the external thread and weld the rest to the exhaust pipe. The sensor threads into the internal thread. Make sure you apply anti-seize to the thread before you install in case you need to remove the sensor for any reason. For determining the type of sensor I'm gonna go out on a limb here because I haven't fiddled with those too much(I have in mind for getting one when this comes together though). A good AF gauge may tell you what kind of a sensor you have. If its a narrow band sensor it may only give only a couple of values on the AF gauges, which should be something like >15.0-14.7-<12.0, or something to that effect. If its a wideband it should give you those values, and values in between. It's like the difference between coarse and fine control. I know a few of the members here that have those, so feel free to chime in. Also, this is a sensor that can run by itself, so if you wanna tune using a carb, this is a great device to have.
                        I had forgotten to add that you can use a sensor and an AF gauge from any FLAPS, but those will more likely be a novelty item. For some serious fun, get the Innovate unit and sensor. The Innovate setup has a wideband sensor and gauge.

                        The humor about the bungs is I think I got this little diddy from the megasquirt people, as well as this was a cheap trick for the Honda people to keep the check engine light from coming on when they went to a modified exhaust system(which in turn also kept the emissions people from complaining, lol).
                        1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
                        1963 Studebaker Daytona Hardtop with no engine or transmission
                        1950 Studebaker 2R5 w/170 six cylinder and 3spd OD
                        1955 Studebaker Commander Hardtop w/289 and 3spd OD and Megasquirt port fuel injection(among other things)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I understood about 62% of all that. But anyhoodle, I was talking about the bungs that the injectors fit into on the manifold. I've priced them at places like summit, but they are way too proud of theirs. I only need three for a batchfire champ six, planned on using 5.0 ford injectors.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I got mine off of Ebay along with a set of rails. You know the vendors that advertise for Studebaker O2 sensors that have miles of listings on each page? Well I typed in fuel injector bungs, or something to that effect, and picked the cheapest set on the page. They're nothing more than a set of aluminum blanks that the injectors just slip down into. As an example, this is one of the sites I went to:
                            http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Alumi...Q5fAccessories



                            [IMG=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/55%20Studebaker%20Commander%20Streetrod%20Project/P1010531-1.jpg[/IMG=left]
                            [IMG=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/55%20Studebaker%20Commander%20Streetrod%20Project/P1010550-1.jpg[/IMG=left]
                            [IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/Ex%20Studebaker%20Plant%20Locomotive/P1000578-1.jpg[/IMG=right]
                            [IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201964%20Studebaker%20Commander%20R2/P1010168.jpg[/IMG=right]

                            1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
                            1963 Studebaker Daytona Hardtop with no engine or transmission
                            1950 Studebaker 2R5 w/170 six cylinder and 3spd OD
                            1955 Studebaker Commander Hardtop w/289 and 3spd OD and Megasquirt port fuel injection(among other things)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'll just solder together pieces from a 5.0 mustang for my fuel rail. I could chop pieces out of the original intake for injector bungs but I'm using steel for my manifold. Who's got a little turbo to donate?

                              Comment

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