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Painting Discussion

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  • Painting Discussion

    quote:Originally posted by 65cruiser
    ...I've had Maaco do three of my cars over the years and have always been satisfied with the results. That said, any car of mine they've ever painted, I prepped prior to the paint. I've always removed all the chrome, lights, etc. Now, this isn't a windows out type of paint job, and there was a certain amount of cleanup that went into the car afterward. For for a grand or so, what gives? I'm not looking for a show car, just a really nice, serviceable, daily driver paint job. ...
    You do the prep work, you can get very good paint jobs at the high volume places. They paint cars all day long- get pretty good at it. As I posted to the Studebaker NG earlier, Back in 1963 I had a '54 Willys Aero Ace two-door. It had some minor rust and the paint was faded. A man who worked for me told me to do all the prep work, take off the bumpers and take it to Earl Scheib when they had a weekend deal. I did and I got a good paint job for $19.95- had to settle for a single color that was close to original vice the original two-tone, but so what...




    [img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/R-4.JPG[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/64L.JPG[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/64P.jpg[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/53K.jpg[/img=right]Paul Johnson
    '53 Commander Starliner (since 1966)
    '64 Daytona Wagonaire (original owner)
    '64 Daytona Convertible (2006)
    Museum R-4 engine
    Paul Johnson, Wild and Wonderful West Virginia.
    '64 Daytona Wagonaire, '64 Avanti R-1, Museum R-4 engine, '72 Gravely Model 430 with Onan engine

  • #2
    Painting Discussion

    I'll soon be reaching the point where my Cruiser is going to need a new paint job. Since it's a daily driver, it's picked up its share of nicks here and there. I'm pretty diligent about keeping things touched up, but the car was last painted in 1996 so it won't be long now. Don't get me wrong, I still have a great driver paint job--definitely not show, but a really nice 10 footer. In reading Dick Steinkamps post about wet sanding, I even think I could do a little bit of detailing and get by another year or two. But, recently I hit a muffler that came slinging across my driving lane. That got kicked up into the rear quarter and dinged the edge of the lip. That fender also has a bit of rust starting at the top corner, so I'm going to replace that quarter and spot paint. The estimate just for the spot paint was $250-300.

    That said, I've begun an early exploration of my options. Shelling out $3-4000 for a paint job isn't going to happen. I'm not looking for a show paint job, but don't want crap either. I've seriously thought about taking some adult education courses in auto painting and doing it myself--I don't think it would be that darned hard.

    But, here's my question. If you can take a decent paint job and wet sand it to smooth it out, what's so bad about taking a car to Maaco and getting it painted, then detailing it yourself. For around a grand, they'll do a basecoat/clearcoat job, with warranty.

    I've had Maaco do three of my cars over the years and have always been satisfied with the results. That said, any car of mine they've ever painted, I prepped prior to the paint. I've always removed all the chrome, lights, etc. Now, this isn't a windows out type of paint job, and there was a certain amount of cleanup that went into the car afterward. For for a grand or so, what gives? I'm not looking for a show car, just a really nice, serviceable, daily driver paint job.

    Inquiring minds want to know[]

    ________________________
    Mark Anderson
    1965 Cruiser
    http://home.alltel.net/anderm

    Comment


    • #3
      I'd go for it Mark. You'll pick up some new skills at the adult ed class AND you'll save a bunch of money and have the satisfaction of participating in the process. You might consider replacing the door seals and other rubber at this time if it is starting to wear. It's tough to mask and really makes the paint job "pop" to have the new rubber.

      Here's how I'm getting my '63 Hawk repainted. Kinda lucked into this one. A friend of a friend is a young guy who graduated from WyoTech
      http://www.wyotech.com/auto-body-repair.php and worked for a couple of years for a custom/hot rod shop here. They couldn't keep him busy enough and so now he's a carpenter. He really loves the body and paint and does some beautiful work. I'll blow the car apart (started yesterday), and he'll "let me" sand the door jambs, engine compartment, and other places like that. He wants to block out the car himself to insure it is perfect. He'll paint it (he has access to a pro booth), I'll color sand and buff and reassemble it. This will be a show quality base coat/clear coat. Materials will be right at $1000. He estimates he'll have about 100 hours into blocking the car and shooting it (very minimal body work needed). I'll post progress pictures. If this relationship works out, I've got a couple of other cars in the wings that would benefit from the same treatment. We'll see.



      Dick Steinkamp
      Bellingham, WA

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      • #4
        One hundred hours, whats his hourly rate?

        GARY H 2DR.SEDAN 48 STUDEBAKER CHAMPION NORTHEAST MD.

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        • #5
          I have also done the Maaco bit. I did some prep work, they painted. I replaced the trim. Turned out very ssatisfactory at a reasonable price. I wouldn't call it show quality but entirely satisfactory for a car that I planned to drive.

          That said, if our local college offered a body work and painting course I would enroll. I think it would be very satisfying to be able to do this work. I suppose you can learn this on your own but I think the curve is both long and steep.

          Don Wilson
          53 Commander Hardtop
          64 Champ 1/2 ton
          Centralia, WA
          Don Wilson, Centralia, WA

          40 Champion 4 door*
          50 Champion 2 door*
          53 Commander K Auto*
          53 Commander K overdrive*
          55 President Speedster
          62 GT 4Speed*
          63 Avanti R1*
          64 Champ 1/2 ton

          * Formerly owned

          Comment


          • #6
            Well, you get what you don't pay for...
            Without getting into the roller, brush, and vacuum cleaner paint jobs...
            A good BC/CC paint job can run you somewhere in the neighborhood of $1500 just for materials.... You can spend several hundred hours in good prep work too.
            That all adds up quick.
            The Maaco thing can be a good deal if you do the 200 hours of prep work yourself.
            But it will be a driver paint job at best.
            Jeff[8D]




            DEEPNHOCK at Gmail.com
            Brooklet, Georgia
            '37 Coupe Express (never ending project)
            '37 Coupe Express Trailer (project)
            '61 Hawk (project)
            http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

            HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

            Jeff


            Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



            Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

            Comment


            • #7
              See, that's what I want to know--what makes that a "driver" paint job (not that there's anything wrong with that)? If you do the prep yourself, then wet sand and buff afterward, it seems to me you could end up with a very decent paint job.

              Maybe I just don't know the difference between "show" and "driver". I'm cornfused.[B)]

              quote:Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK

              Well, you get what you don't pay for...
              Without getting into the roller, brush, and vacuum cleaner paint jobs...
              A good BC/CC paint job can run you somewhere in the neighborhood of $1500 just for materials.... You can spend several hundred hours in good prep work too.
              That all adds up quick.
              The Maaco thing can be a good deal if you do the 200 hours of prep work yourself.
              But it will be a driver paint job at best.
              Jeff[8D]




              DEEPNHOCK at Gmail.com
              Brooklet, Georgia
              '37 Coupe Express (never ending project)
              '37 Coupe Express Trailer (project)
              '61 Hawk (project)
              http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

              ________________________
              Mark Anderson
              1965 Cruiser
              http://home.alltel.net/anderm

              Comment


              • #8
                quote:Originally posted by CHAMP

                One hundred hours, whats his hourly rate?
                Cheaper than a shop .

                He will have 100 hours into it. I'll probably have 200+.



                Dick Steinkamp
                Bellingham, WA

                Comment


                • #9
                  Well here is my two cents. After owning a shop for years (no longer)no one can determine what you are going to get from any shop. The prep work is extremely important. I have seen pretty good jobs come out of Maaco and I've seen terrible also. One of the big differences with Maaco and other cut rate shops is the quality of paint and the prep.. The spraying of it is based on the years of training and experience of the painter (really isn't much to it). I have actually done the following. Do the prep, take it to let's say Maaco and either bring them the better quality paint or have them get it at the extra cost. Do a clear coat/ base coat, (maybe and extra couple coats of clear so you can buff)have them buff it and then take it home for your final buffing and polishing. I believe unless you are extremely unlucky with the painters skills you will get a quality paint job for a really cheap price. Also the difference in a driver paint job and a show paint job is not always money. Again, prep, paint, skills and your own hard work. Also a true show quality paint job is in the $8,000-$12,000 range down here in Texas. Most paint jobs in a small shop around here are $3,500 -$6,000. I would not say they are SHOW QUALITY guaranteed (you might get one). Good Luck and let us know how it goes.

                  1956 Studebaker Pelham Wagon Houston, Texas
                  Remember, \"When all is said and done. More is always said then ever done.\"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You are asking some good, pertinent questions.
                    It is hard to stick a universal label on a paint job.
                    If you have a $100k car, you aren't going to skimp on the paint job.
                    But if you have a $1K Stude, you probably aren't going to opt for a $6k paint job. I do believe the difference is in the prep labor.
                    Paint and material costs are fairly constant, so the amount of labor involved will be the big ticket item. Sure, a pro shop will have the equipment, and knowhow to whip a project through... But most of the Stude crowd are not in a hurry. I know I'd rather spend twice as long making each part of my project 'right' than pay someone big dollars to just hurry through it because the boss has a schedule to keep.
                    If I had a decent Stude, I'd put the best paint job on it I could afford, even if I had to borrow to do it. I just went through the second paint job on my yellow truck, and it was harder for me to let someone else do the work. But I remember the tedious pain and agony of months of prep work, and then not being really happy with my home done paint job. Well, I could probably say the same for some aspects of the pro job that I just got... But it is still better than what I had before. Oh, I postponed that paint job for better than two years saving up for it. I could have bought a couple decent Larks for what it cost... But, to me...It was worth it (as long as it last's 100 years) If I had a decent 'driver' Stude... I'd probably just do the first 90% of the prep work, and then let Maaco finish the final prep and paint. I'd still hang the trim and stuff..
                    Jeff[8D]


                    quote:Originally posted by 65cruiser

                    See, that's what I want to know--what makes that a "driver" paint job (not that there's anything wrong with that)? If you do the prep yourself, then wet sand and buff afterward, it seems to me you could end up with a very decent paint job.
                    Maybe I just don't know the difference between "show" and "driver". I'm cornfused.[B)]
                    Mark Anderson
                    HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

                    Jeff


                    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



                    Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      [xx(]This is some good info I'm getting here. I've always thought that most of what makes a good paint job is in the prep work, and I have no problem with doing labor. However, most shops I've talked with first just don't want to fool with an all-over paint job. They'd rather do collision work and collect their money from the insurance company. The ones I've spoken to that WOULD entertain a complete paint job, want to do it on their terms, their timeframe and want anything from $3500 up. I'm just not going to put that kind of money in a Studebaker that's worth $6000 on a GOOD day. But again, I don't want a piece of crap either. That said, I've had three cars painted by Maaco, a 1966 Econoline, a 1983 Chevy Wagon and a 1977 Pontiac Grand Lemans. All were nice, decent paint jobs that you could be proud of. I wouldn't enter any of them in a Concours[8D] but they were at least as good as what the factory produced. I only had one of these vehicles long enough to see how the paint held up, and that was the Lemans. I paid $700 for that job (several years ago[^]) and that included them stripping the hood, trunk and roof. I sold that car two years ago after it had sat outside behind my garage for 5 years. The paint was all there, and still shined nicely (except for the large dent in the side that put the car behind the garage to begin with).

                      So....you've answered a bunch of questions. It sounds like IF I were to explore the Maaco route, I need to do extensive prep, and possibly supply my own paint. Besides that, I need to check out work that they've done in the recent past to see what that looks like.

                      Or, I'm going to learn to do it myself[B)][}][V]



                      ________________________
                      Mark Anderson
                      1965 Cruiser
                      http://home.alltel.net/anderm

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I personally would be leary of painting a vehicle that some one else has done the prep work on. I would need to have confidence that the prep person knows what they are doing. Very good quality paint isn't cheap and it's only going to be as good as the prep work and materials used to do the prep work. If the paint lifts or fades, who gets the blame? (I'm re-painting a Lark now that was painted, looked very good, but I found rust underneath the almost fresh paint. I'm having to strip the entire car and start over.)
                        Having said that, on a vehicle that doesn't have a lot of value, doing the prep work yourself and just letting macco or like company spray the paint on would be the cheapest way to go.
                        64 Champ long bed V8
                        55/53 Studebaker President S/R
                        53 Hudson Super Wasp Coupe

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Just to add. Go down to Maaco or any other shop and look at the current work on a couple of diff. visits. You can reasonably expect yours to look like what you see. The only diff. would be the quality of the body work. (prep) Also, I agree that doing your own prep is going to void any warrenty that may exist. But again the cost savings should balance this out.

                          1956 Studebaker Pelham Wagon Houston, Texas
                          Remember, \"When all is said and done. More is always said then ever done.\"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Maybe a couple of other pros can throw in their 2 cents worth (I'm NOT one), but one word of caution. "Prep work" isn't just sanding the car and putting a little putty here and there. Pros are pros because of the training and experience in prepping (and painting cars). There is a BIG difference between a pro prepped car and an owner prepped car...not only with how the paint will last, but also how the paint will look. The Adult ed course thing is a great idea and will help a lot I'm sure, but don't expect your first prep for paint to be as good as a good pro would do.


                            Dick Steinkamp
                            Bellingham, WA

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hey, a guy over on the Mopar group painted his Charger with a roller and Rustoleum--looked pretty good too....

                              No, I'm NOT going to do that[}]

                              Sounds like I need to find some good adult classes.

                              quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp

                              Maybe a couple of other pros can throw in their 2 cents worth (I'm NOT one), but one word of caution. "Prep work" isn't just sanding the car and putting a little putty here and there. Pros are pros because of the training and experience in prepping (and painting cars). There is a BIG difference between a pro prepped car and an owner prepped car...not only with how the paint will last, but also how the paint will look. The Adult ed course thing is a great idea and will help a lot I'm sure, but don't expect your first prep for paint to be as good as a good pro would do.


                              ________________________
                              Mark Anderson
                              1965 Cruiser
                              http://home.alltel.net/anderm

                              Comment

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