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more 56 golden hawk help

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  • more 56 golden hawk help

    one more problem, this time it's the horn. When the horn ring is depressed it is supposed to complete the ground circuit and blow the horn. how is the ground circuit routed when the horn ring is depressed on a 56 GH. Does the ground go thru the steering box (siganaw) via the steering gear post, if so that's where i'm losing the ground. I've always had hown problems but htis is the worst case so far. help.

  • #2
    I don't know anything about the GH's. But the simplest circuit used for horns has an insulated 'hot' wire coming up through the steering column to the horn button/ring. When that part is depressed, it comes in contact with the hot wire. There is metal in the horn button/ring at the center of it which will contact a plate contact attached to the column which is metal and attached to the body and chassis in a number of places. The whole column should be your ground.

    '50 Champion, 1 family owner

    Comment


    • #3
      Manual steering or power steering?
      You know the relay is good?
      You've hot wired the horns so you know they're good?
      "All attempts to 'rise above the issue' are simply an excuse to avoid it profitably." --Dick Gregory

      Brad Johnson, SDC since 1975, ASC since 1990
      Pine Grove Mills, Pa.
      sigpic'33 Rockne 10, '51 Commander Starlight, '53 Commander Starlight "Désirée"

      Comment


      • #4
        If you have power steering, the wire goes down the inside of the steering shaft and attaches to a slip ring at the bottom where the hidden "rag" joint is at. There is a carbon brush there attached to the outer column and poking through a hole in the column to contact the slip ring. A wire goes from the brush to the horn relay on the fan shroud.

        The advantage of this setup compared to the manual steering where the wire exits the bottom of the steering box is the wire never gets twisted as you steer so it "shouldn't" break off unless the crimped ends pull off for some reason. The wire for the manual steering is suppose to spin at the top but usually doesn't and twists off.

        If you have a ohmmeter, check the continuity from the wire at the brush to the horn ring. (disconnect battery when testing). When you push the ring, it should ground to the inside of the steering wheel where the spline is and complete the circuit to the car chassis. I've had trouble with the horn in my car with the saginaw PS and the problem was the back side of the ring was not making a good contact with the metal insert in the wheel where the spline is. There was some paint/rust and a little sandpaper in there fixed it. If the brush, slip ring, and column wiring is OK, the only thing else would be the wiring to the relay and from that the horns themselves or the hot wire to the relay that comes from the generator. I am not sure anymore if the stock setup has a circuit breaker but I put one on my car between the battery and the horn relay.

        Jeff in ND

        '53 Champion Hardtop

        Jeff in ND

        Comment


        • #5
          If you have power steering, the wire goes down the inside of the steering shaft and attaches to a slip ring at the bottom where the hidden "rag" joint is at. There is a carbon brush there attached to the outer column and poking through a hole in the column to contact the slip ring. A wire goes from the brush to the horn relay on the fan shroud.

          The advantage of this setup compared to the manual steering where the wire exits the bottom of the steering box is the wire never gets twisted as you steer so it "shouldn't" break off unless the crimped ends pull off for some reason. The wire for the manual steering is suppose to spin at the top but usually doesn't and twists off.

          If you have a ohmmeter, check the continuity from the wire at the brush to the horn ring. (disconnect battery when testing). When you push the ring, it should ground to the inside of the steering wheel where the spline is and complete the circuit to the car chassis. I've had trouble with the horn in my car with the saginaw PS and the problem was the back side of the ring was not making a good contact with the metal insert in the wheel where the spline is. There was some paint/rust and a little sandpaper in there fixed it. If the brush, slip ring, and column wiring is OK, the only thing else would be the wiring to the relay and from that the horns themselves or the hot wire to the relay that comes from the generator. I am not sure anymore if the stock setup has a circuit breaker but I put one on my car between the battery and the horn relay.

          Jeff in ND

          '53 Champion Hardtop

          Jeff in ND

          Comment


          • #6
            I found what apparently was the problem. The ground connection was broken where the steering gear post bolts to the flange on the steering box. The two "tabs" (page 417 chassis book, part 1304-11)were cleaned and covered with conductive tape. Horns work as they should. I'm an amateur at this and appreciate all the help.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Jeff_H View Post
              If you have power steering, the wire goes down the inside of the steering shaft and attaches to a slip ring at the bottom where the hidden "rag" joint is at. There is a carbon brush there attached to the outer column and poking through a hole in the column to contact the slip ring. A wire goes from the brush to the horn relay on the fan shroud.

              The advantage of this setup compared to the manual steering where the wire exits the bottom of the steering box is the wire never gets twisted as you steer so it "shouldn't" break off unless the crimped ends pull off for some reason. The wire for the manual steering is suppose to spin at the top but usually doesn't and twists off.

              If you have a ohmmeter, check the continuity from the wire at the brush to the horn ring. (disconnect battery when testing). When you push the ring, it should ground to the inside of the steering wheel where the spline is and complete the circuit to the car chassis. I've had trouble with the horn in my car with the saginaw PS and the problem was the back side of the ring was not making a good contact with the metal insert in the wheel where the spline is. There was some paint/rust and a little sandpaper in there fixed it. If the brush, slip ring, and column wiring is OK, the only thing else would be the wiring to the relay and from that the horns themselves or the hot wire to the relay that comes from the generator. I am not sure anymore if the stock setup has a circuit breaker but I put one on my car between the battery and the horn relay.

              Jeff in ND

              '53 Champion Hardtop
              I have been replacing the main wire harness in my 56J. I have the wire going from the brush on the steering column to the horn relay. I also had a wire going from one of the wires coming out of the column inside the car to the same post on the horn relay. This isn't the way the main wire diagram shows. I also have just one wire coming from the relay post to one horn and than to the other horn.

              Does this mean that one wasn't work and the way it was set up was a jury rig?
              Thanks,
              Steve
              sigpic�Never raise your hands to your children, it leaves your groin unprotected.� - Red Buttons

              '63 Avanti R2
              '14 Boxster
              '64 GT Hawk R1 JT
              '37 Dictator Coupe
              '37 Dictator Coupe "slight custom"

              Comment


              • #8
                Sounds like that depends on whether your setup is a Saginaw Power Steering Car like the original poster back in 2009 or a Manual Steering Ross Box.

                Something is wrong with this though:
                "I also had a wire going from one of the wires coming out of the column inside the car to the same post on the horn relay."

                There should be a Power wire to the Relay from probably the Ammeter, a Ground to the Steering Column and a output to horns splitting into Two Horns.

                I would check this wire "from inside the Car" and find out IF and WHEN it is Hot, key on, key off, it SHOULD always be Hot, if it is the power feed to the Relay.

                Maybe that unknown wire WAS as you said, just a "Fix" for the Ground wire going to a add-on Horn Button.
                StudeRich
                Second Generation Stude Driver,
                Proud '54 Starliner Owner

                Comment


                • #9
                  StudeRich,

                  It is the power steering.

                  This is the way it was wired.
                  Attached Files
                  sigpic�Never raise your hands to your children, it leaves your groin unprotected.� - Red Buttons

                  '63 Avanti R2
                  '14 Boxster
                  '64 GT Hawk R1 JT
                  '37 Dictator Coupe
                  '37 Dictator Coupe "slight custom"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If you can understand Post #5, I think it is explaining that a wire does go through the "brush" at the bottom of the steering gear, I would think it would also go to the horn button though, so I don't see the need for the other wire to the "button".

                    Maybe re-read that post.
                    StudeRich
                    Second Generation Stude Driver,
                    Proud '54 Starliner Owner

                    Comment

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