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Freed a stuck 259

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  • Clover Green
    replied
    Gordon, thanks for your step by step on the 259. It will be handy when I start on the 259 I rescued from a wrecked 64 Daytona from near Digby. I did remove the pan and clean it of all the solids inside. Over all the inside of the engine looks pretty good.
    Thanks again.
    Andrew

    Andrew
    '49 2R5
    '59 Lark 2 door waggon
    '48 Chev 1 ton

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  • sweetolbob
    replied
    Gord

    Sounds like you are having a ball with the studebuggy. Just be careful not to get the floor mat wedged into the accelerator, you know the problems that can cause with no brakes.

    Bob

    ,

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  • jclary
    replied
    When I was embarrassing my wife and daughter by driving around the yard on this one...they nick named me "Freddy Flintstone." I was getting the chassis and engine the way I wanted it before dropping the body back on. The old wooden ammo box made a fair seat but you had to take care not to lean back. Note the temporary "non-stock" gas tank.
    [img][/img]

    John Clary
    Greer, SC

    Life... is what happens as you are making plans.
    SDC member since 1975

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  • gordr
    replied
    Well, I had a ride on it today, one orbit around the yard. I don't think you can ride "in" something that has no body, can you? My main chore today was replacing the filter sock in the fuel tank of my '96 Suburban, then replacing the tank, but I got some quality time on the Studebuggy while waiting for the tank to get filled by my little pump.

    I started by taking off the leaking water pump, and replacing it with a seemingly good used one I found in the barn. No leaks so far. Then I cast around for a sheet of metal to make a section of "floor" to support the driver's heels and gas pedal, and found the base plate off an old home stereo in the scrap metal bin. Bent up one edge to stiffen it, and welded it to the frame. Then welded a couple of 1/4-20 nuts to it to capture the hinge pin of the gas pedal. This is the original gas pedal off the '61 Lark, but the part of the hinge that mounts to the floor was completely rusted away. So I worked with what was left.

    I measured up the Toyota seat I had, and it was 46" across between the mounting holes, and kind of low, too. So I built up a sort of a cribbing from 2X6s to support it. No nails! I laid a piece of 2X6 along each frame rail, and drilled down through it and the frame rail with a 3/8" bit at each end, and bolted it to the frame rail with a piece of 3/8" Redi-Rod and big washers. Then I laid a pair of 4-foot 2X6s across the frame on top of them and set the seat down and tried it. Too low, and had to come forward. I moved it forward, and stuck two shorter pieces of 2X6 on top of the bolted-down ones to shim the seat up. That proved to be near-perfect, so I marked the holes for the ends of the seat tracks, then used more Redi_Rod to join the 3-layer stacks of 2X6 together at each corner. I also drilled holes for the rear of the seat tracks, and bolted them to the top 2X6 with 3/8" bolts, again with large washers. I haven't dealt with the front of the seat tracks yet; they will need some little metal angle brackets. But what's done is plenty strong.

    Then I set a battery in the tray, and fired the engine, after adding some antifreeze to the radiator. Once it had warmed up a little, I stepped on the clutch pedal, and shifted into reverse. Woo-Hoo! I backed up OK. Clutch works fine, even if the pedal support is still ill-anchored. Then I shifted into first gear, and drove ahead, and made a slow orbit of the yard; total distance maybe 900 feet. That carb will definitely need some work, because I could not get it to rev up without dying, but I made the circuit without stalling the engine. No brakes as yet. I plan to mount the original master cylinder, and use those bolts to add sway braces to the pedal cluster.

    Anyway, the engine got partially warmed up and circulated the antifreeze, with no leaks to be seen. Should be safe from frost at least until the REAL cold weather arrives.

    Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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  • Dick Steinkamp
    replied
    quote:Originally posted by gordr

    Well, this darn thing is taking on a life of its own. Too bad the name, "Frankenstude" is already taken.

    I determined that the battery tray would be seriously in the way of the pedals if I left it on the left side, so I switched it to the right. Then I dug out a crusty long-tail T86 with OD that had come on another parts engine I bought. The front bearing retainer was broken. Spent a bunch of time tracking that piece down. Then I figured I'd better pack the throwout bearing. More time. Finally got the transmission installed. Then I went looking for a driveshaft. Came up dry looking in all the usual places. I didn't want to rob one out of a running car, either. Finally I looked in the trunk of the '65 Commander 2-door that's going to get the 4.3 engine. Bingo! It's a skinny 6 cylinder driveshaft, but it'll do. And that car will need a custom shaft, anyway, when the time comes.

    So the engine is now coupled up to the rear end. Now I need a clutch pedal, and a means of shifting gears. Simplest solution was to round up the steering column jacket and pedal hanger from the dead '61, and put 'em back in there. I wasted a LOT of time looking for the upper half of the "saddle" that clamps the pedal hanger to the steering column jacket, and finally gave up and bent one up out of steel strip. I DID find the linkage rods for the gearshift and clutch, though, and got them installed, and both clutch and shift do work. I'm now at the point, that if it had a seat and a gas pedal, it could be driven, but the steering column really needs to be braced. And it needs at least enough floor to support the gas pedal (and my feet).

    Having got this far, I'm going to dive in and do it at least halfway right. I will brace the steering column, but make sure that the portion of the brace that passes over the bellhousing is hinged at one end, and can be unbolted at the other (wing nuts?), so that it doesn't become an impediment to hoisting the engine and transmission straight up vertically to remove them. Then I can attach an instrument panel of sorts to the swinging portion of the brace, and arrange for all the wiring to pass by the hinge end, leaving a loop for slack. I can mount the starter solenoid, ignition resistor, ignition switch, and ammeter there, and possibly also a toggle switch to operate the overdrive solenoid. I really don't plan on driving this thing in overdrive, but it would be nice to be able to at least test if the OD functions, and hear if the planet gears are noisy or not.

    I haven't really given much thought to the seat issue yet, but I have a bench seat out of a Toyota truck that is nice and light. Not much advantage to using a Studebaker seat, as there is no floor pan with bolt holes to fit it, so whatever seat gets used will call for building some kind of support structure. I may want to arrange the seat so that it can be hinged back, again to facilitate swapping engine/transmission combos.

    Anyhow, I'm done with it for today.

    Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands
    The only thing that comes to mind is...

    Yabba Dabba Dooo!

    Dick Steinkamp
    Bellingham, WA

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  • gordr
    replied
    Well, this darn thing is taking on a life of its own. Too bad the name, "Frankenstude" is already taken.

    I determined that the battery tray would be seriously in the way of the pedals if I left it on the left side, so I switched it to the right. Then I dug out a crusty long-tail T86 with OD that had come on another parts engine I bought. The front bearing retainer was broken. Spent a bunch of time tracking that piece down. Then I figured I'd better pack the throwout bearing. More time. Finally got the transmission installed. Then I went looking for a driveshaft. Came up dry looking in all the usual places. I didn't want to rob one out of a running car, either. Finally I looked in the trunk of the '65 Commander 2-door that's going to get the 4.3 engine. Bingo! It's a skinny 6 cylinder driveshaft, but it'll do. And that car will need a custom shaft, anyway, when the time comes.

    So the engine is now coupled up to the rear end. Now I need a clutch pedal, and a means of shifting gears. Simplest solution was to round up the steering column jacket and pedal hanger from the dead '61, and put 'em back in there. I wasted a LOT of time looking for the upper half of the "saddle" that clamps the pedal hanger to the steering column jacket, and finally gave up and bent one up out of steel strip. I DID find the linkage rods for the gearshift and clutch, though, and got them installed, and both clutch and shift do work. I'm now at the point, that if it had a seat and a gas pedal, it could be driven, but the steering column really needs to be braced. And it needs at least enough floor to support the gas pedal (and my feet).

    Having got this far, I'm going to dive in and do it at least halfway right. I will brace the steering column, but make sure that the portion of the brace that passes over the bellhousing is hinged at one end, and can be unbolted at the other (wing nuts?), so that it doesn't become an impediment to hoisting the engine and transmission straight up vertically to remove them. Then I can attach an instrument panel of sorts to the swinging portion of the brace, and arrange for all the wiring to pass by the hinge end, leaving a loop for slack. I can mount the starter solenoid, ignition resistor, ignition switch, and ammeter there, and possibly also a toggle switch to operate the overdrive solenoid. I really don't plan on driving this thing in overdrive, but it would be nice to be able to at least test if the OD functions, and hear if the planet gears are noisy or not.

    I haven't really given much thought to the seat issue yet, but I have a bench seat out of a Toyota truck that is nice and light. Not much advantage to using a Studebaker seat, as there is no floor pan with bolt holes to fit it, so whatever seat gets used will call for building some kind of support structure. I may want to arrange the seat so that it can be hinged back, again to facilitate swapping engine/transmission combos.

    Anyhow, I'm done with it for today.

    Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    If you're half as good at geology, I want you at my next dig!

    Hooray for Gord!

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  • Dick Steinkamp
    replied
    That's GOT to be one of the most satisfying parts of the hobby...to get a motor that has not run for many years (stuck even! [:0]) running...and running WELL. [8D]

    Congrats, Gord.


    Dick Steinkamp
    Bellingham, WA

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  • BobGlasscock
    replied

    Studedunebugbaker.

    Studunebuggybaker.

    Studunebakebuggy.

    Studedunebakerbuggy.

    As you said, some things just beg to be done. I think I like the last one best. A delivery vehicle for a Saharan bread maker.

    '50 Champion, 1 family owner

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  • gordr
    replied
    Update as of 2:00 P.M. Saturday. I got busy this morning, and bolted a radiator saddle to the frame, and hung a radiator in it. Hooked up some rad hoses. Installed the fan, water pump pulley, and a generator. Hung the voltage regulator on the right side of the radiator saddle, and a ammeter on the left. Found an ignition resistor, and mounted it under one of the bolts that retains the water jacket blockoff plate at the rear of the right head. Mounted the starter solenoid at the rear of the left head. Bolted a battery tray to the left end of the batwing crossmember, and tack-brazed the other end to the frame rail. Ran a bunch of wires. I connected the line between the carb and the fuel pump, and dumped a couple of gallons of fuel in the tank.

    Woo-hoo! It works! Got it started by priming it with a squirt bottle of gas, and after a few moments, the fuel pump kicked in, and the carb filled and it ran on its own. The ammeter kicked over from discharge to charge, so the generator's putting out. When I revved up the engine, a big surge of water came out of the top of the radiator core, through the fan, and all over me. Scratch one radiator. I found a '58 Hawk radiator, which fit, but had different hose connections, so I had to scrounge through the used hose bin for different hoses. Got them on, filled up the rad, and started it again. It starts easily now.

    I ran it for 5 or 10 minutes. The water pump started out by leaking real bad, but sort of cleared up. But I doubt it will heal itself completely. Accelerator pump is still D.O.A., but it idles fine, and will rev up if the throttle is opened slowly. I ran it until it was pretty well warmed up, and the oil pressure gauge, which showed around 75 PSI cold, settled down to about 50 at a fast idle. I will try another gauge before taking that as Gospel, though

    While it was idling, I walked around it, and pulled off each spark plug wire, one by one. Engine note changed, and revs dropped a little bit each time, so it's really hitting on all eight holes. Valves are a little loud.

    Hmmm, all it needs now is a transmission, drive shaft, and seat, and I have a Studebaker dune buggy. Some things just beg to be done, don't they?

    Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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  • gordr
    replied
    Tom, there are the remains of dual exhaust pipes on both manifolds. About a foot on the right side, 2 on the left. It has a pretty loud bark, but my nearest neighbor is a quarter mile away.

    Since the heat riser valve is in place, and freed up, all the bark comes out the left side until it warms up.

    Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Nice goin' Gordon!

    Did you run it without any pipes beyond the ex. manifolds? I suppose you could there - how far is your closest neighbor? I'm close to igniting a recently rebuilt V8 and have a crossover pipe with lots of holes that I could rig a muffler on seeing as how I'll be holding 1500 rpm for 20 minutes and have close neighbors. Could imagine the racket of doing that with no pipes!


    A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves. - Edward R. Murrow

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  • jclary
    replied
    I have let accelerator pumps set overnight with a mixture of gas and oil...sometimes it kinda rejuvenates the leather seal. Of course if you are going to go through the carb anyway that won't be necessary. I like the rolling engine stand you have.

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  • gordr
    replied
    Well, I had it running today, for a grand total of maybe 30 seconds, in several short bursts. I took the carb apart, cleaned a mess of corrosion out of the bowl, and replaced shrunken base and bowl gaskets with decent used ones. But the accelerator pump still doesn't work, and I think there may be other passages plugged in it, too. But it did seem to be hitting on all cylinders.

    I never put an oil pressure gauge on it. Kind of pointless unless you can run it up to operating temperature. Even a worn-out engine can show pretty good oil pressure when cold.

    But I'm sufficiently encouraged that I will give the carb a thorough going-over, and go ahead and hook up a radiator and fuel pump, so it can run for an extended period.

    Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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  • gordr
    replied
    Tom, that's a matter which has been subject to considerable debate here. FWIW, I pulled the dipstick, and the oil is clear brown. The cooling system had antifreeze in it, too.

    Now the car had been sitting for years before I got it. Presumably the oil is clear because all the sludge has settled out. If I drain the oil now, engine cold, I'm going to get a pan-full of clean oil, and the lion's share of the sludge will remain in the oil pan, waiting patiently for its chance to contaminate 5 quarts of brand new oil.

    When the engine last ran, the oil in it was being filtered by the bypass oil filter, so chances are it was as clean as it could get, depending on the age of the oil, which cannot be determined. Sitting like that, the engine is not likely going to shed a whole lot of coarse particles into the oil. The fines, which get through the oil filter, have settled out, and they will be there whether I use the current oil or a fresh batch.

    If the oil were visibly contaminated with water, rust, or antifreeze, I'd change it for sure.

    The absolute best way to revive a long-dormant engine would be to drop the pan, and manually clean out the sludge, and check bearing clearances, too. That's more effort than I want to put into an engine for which I have no immediate use. Maybe it has bottom-end problems, anyway. It may well have some stuck rings, or have enough rust damage on the cylinder walls to have blowby issues. So I will run it (if it starts), long enough to warm it to operating temperature, check the oil pressure, and do a compression test. If it holds good oil pressure, and has decent compression, I'll mark it as being usable as-is, suitable for getting a non-operating car back on the road. And, if it knocks, or has poor oil pressure or uneven compression, I'll mark it as a core for rebuild. I'll drain the oil, hot, in either case.

    Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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