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Ethanol gas causing fuel tank problems?

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  • tim87114
    replied
    Ok a couple things to touch on here.

    "Ethanol gets worse MPG over regular gasoline"
    Technically true, but only because your engines compression ratio is not made for the E10 grade you are using. I'll explain in two parts.
    1. In other words, if you are considering an 87 octane straight unleaded vs e10 in your 1995 chevy truck with a 350v8. Yes your mileage will decrease because your vehicle is not made to adapt to "E" blended fuel. This is an issue as most states add ethanol to fuel to reduce emissions. Your MPG loss is only determined by your own vehicle so each persons lost MPG is different.
    2. In truth Ethanol has 34% less energy to its gas counter part but only when equated to the same compression ratio. Ethanol in true form has a higher octane rating so a change in compression ratio must be made, at which point it equals the MPG rating and the MPG rating can be increase beyond gasoline by turbocharging or supercharging the engine. Gale Banks is doing extensive testing on this now.

    When putting E85 in my E85 flexfuel vehicle I get worse MPG. TRUE. This is because the E85 engine is a hybrid of sorts. It has to have a lower compression ratio to be able to run on Gas and not detonate, yet just high enough to run on E85. The problem is that it is not optimized for straight E85.

    E10 or E85 "has or attracts water" Ethanol fuel blends "can" have water in them from the mfg process because the amount of water allowed to ethanol % is based on the fact that ethanol will allow for the water in part of phase seperation. But you are correct that too much water in the tank is bad and will lead to poor starting and poor MPG. Gas or ethanol mix both attract water and condensation in a fuel system. The effect on drivability and operation of the vehicle is based on several factors to each specific vehicle.

    Ethanol is bad for your Studebaker or any classic/antique car.
    TECHNICALLY NOT TRUE>
    1. if you ran only gasoline, which all of us have, in your car for several years, then yes it is bad to switch. The blend may cause any oxidized gas build up in your tank and lines to seperate and then clog your filters and fuel lines and even your jets and carb bowls. If your vehicle is freshly rebuilt and you start off with blended fuel you should not have any issues outside of having to adjust fuel and timing.

    2. Almost all MFG's of cars pre 50's offered 100% ethanol fuel vehicle options which mainly farmers purchased. Many farmers were not near gas stations and made their own fuel. Hence why it was an option.

    Ethanol as a fuel is not something that is new. Infact it was around before gas, but gas won out as a cheaper and more readily available option. As our own oil revolution took off, ethanol slowly faded away until it's re-surgence as an "addative" to fuel.

    You can convert any older car to run off of ethanol but you will need to modify your compression and timing as well as your air/fuel ratio.

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  • nels
    replied
    Tom
    I wonder if the "phase gaurd 4" you mention is just a generic gas stabilizer?

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  • Guest
    Guest replied
    http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...to_engine.aspx

    Might be worth a try.

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  • JDP
    replied
    A Studebaker that has sat for a few years will get the sludge in the bottom of the tank dissolved into the goop described. I've had old car that sat run fine when I added a few gallons out of a can, but then had all the crap stirred up with a fill up from the pump and plugged up everything.

    JDP/Maryland

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  • JeffDeWitt
    replied
    quote:Originally posted by Aussie Hawk

    Down here we have 'Unleaded' - about 90 - 92 Octane, 'Unleaded E10' - the same Octane with ethanol, and the 'Unleaded' 98 Octane, (Shell's Vortex, BP's Ultimate, etc etc). I haven't heard of any problems with gunk in the tanks but it may be happening. When the Ethanol brand came out I told my service guys to use it to cut costs, a month later we were back on normal Unleaded, the milage with the Ethanol added fuel was terrible.

    Matt
    Brisbane
    Australia

    Matt
    Brisbane
    Australia
    Of course, as alcohol has less energy in it than gasoline, that's one of the reasons I refer to gasoline with alcohol as diluted.

    Jeff DeWitt
    http://carolinastudes.net

    Leave a comment:


  • Aussie Hawk
    replied
    Down here we have 'Unleaded' - about 90 - 92 Octane, 'Unleaded E10' - the same Octane with ethanol, and the 'Unleaded' 98 Octane, (Shell's Vortex, BP's Ultimate, etc etc). I haven't heard of any problems with gunk in the tanks but it may be happening. When the Ethanol brand came out I told my service guys to use it to cut costs, a month later we were back on normal Unleaded, the milage with the Ethanol added fuel was terrible.

    Matt
    Brisbane
    Australia

    Matt
    Brisbane
    Australia

    Leave a comment:


  • RICKJ
    replied
    I work at a marine dealership. Most of our repairs these day come from problems with "E10" ethanol gasoline. After several weeks setting in the fuel tank it absorbs water from the atmosphere and cleans any residue from the tank and dumps all of this into your filters and carbs. Usually results in cleaning tank and carbs completely
    We recommend a product called "PRI-G" to eliminate most of the harmfull effects
    www.priproducts.com



    Leave a comment:


  • cbonner757
    replied
    Great info, thanks, guys.

    Regards,
    Clarence

    Leave a comment:


  • DEEPNHOCK
    replied
    Some interesting E85 and biofuel reading....

    http://tinyurl.com/lhb657

    Leave a comment:


  • nels
    replied
    Bud,
    I agree with you on the water problem when using ethanal. Brake fluid also has alcohol and that's probably what leads to rusty cylinders in the brake system. I know the gas tanks of our studes are really taking a beating and we don't know 'cause we can't see it until it is too late.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bud
    replied
    Ehtanol in gasoline absorbs moisture, which can result in rusted gas tanks and quickly deteriorating neoprene fuel lines and fuel pump parts. We've had to use gas with ethanol here in Los Angeles for years and it has caused problems such as corroded metal parts and quickly deteriorating fuel lines. I add either Marvel Mystery oil or Lucas Fuel additive whenever I buy gas as I believe that the oil helps slow the deterioration problems. Regular grade gas is good for a six, higher octane gas is a waste of momey. Bud

    Leave a comment:


  • Chris Pile
    replied
    quote:.....before I had the imagination to check the fuel filter I had installed years before, just ahead of the tank. It was totally clogged...I dropped the tank and it had an amazing amount of rust and trash.
    Of course, alcohol is a great cleaner. It's cleaning all the gunk out of the system that gasoline brings in. This is especially true of cars that sit for awhile, as the gasoline draws water vapor into the fuel and you end up with this goo that looks like orange snot. So a clean system is better, but I still wouldn't want to run ethanol through my Studebaker (or brand x cars).

    Chris Pile
    Editor: The Studebaker Special
    http://midwaystudebakers.tripod.com/

    Leave a comment:


  • shifter4
    replied
    We have a Propane gas dealer here in Daytona , that has a sign, newly installed ,that reads
    "Ethanol Free Gasoline." I spotted it yesterday and haven't checked it out yet.
    Can't wait to see what the price is.

    Leave a comment:


  • N8N
    replied
    possibly, if the last time it was rebuilt was not with a modern diaphragm... i'd keep an eye on it, and maybe go ahead and order a new rebuild kit just in case...

    nate

    --
    55 Commander Starlight
    http://members.cox.net/njnagel

    Leave a comment:


  • cbonner757
    replied
    Thanks for providing that to everyone. I just bought a 51 Champion 6-cyl. What is the best octane gas to use? All of it here is 10 percent Ethanol.

    I will be adding an inline fuel filter by the tank anyway, but will ethanol mess up the mechanical fuel pump? I've seen ads for "ethanol-resistant"
    electric fuel pumps for studes.

    Regards,
    Clarence

    Leave a comment:

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