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'50 Champion transmission w/O.D.

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  • '50 Champion transmission w/O.D.

    My 1950 Starlight is starting to jump out of 3rd when in O.D. and decelerating or down hill without torque applied, what parts will I need to correct this. Are these parts available from local parts stores or will I need to defer to my friendly Stude parts vendor? If they are available locally where can I obtain part numbers? I have the 1950 Shop Manual, but do not have a parts manual. Should I take this to a qualified mechanic or can an ordinary person with mechanical aptitude accomplish repairs? I do most of my repairs adjustments but am not a mechanic.
    The problem seems to have started when I installed new seals on the shift lever shafts and O.D. solenoid pawl.
    I have two other manual trannies available, both from early '50's but from light truck applications could they serve as parts donors. I hesitate to just swap transmissions as I have no history on their condition.
    I drive the car to all of our Chapter meets and most International meets, so this becomes a nuisance on a trip like the recent one to Cedar Rapids.
    The transmission is a T 96 1-A

  • #2
    If the problem started after you disconnected/reconnected the shift linkages to replace the seals, I would start there. Make sure the shift linkage rubber bushings are good, replace if needed. Make sure your motor mounts and transmission mount are good. Then adjust the shift linkage per the shop manual.

    Paul
    Winston-Salem, NC
    Visit The NEW Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: www.studebakerskytop.com
    Paul
    Winston-Salem, NC
    Visit The Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: www.studebakerskytop.com

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    • #3
      Thanks, Paul. I had just last fall had the engine rebuilt, and re-installed it myself. the motor mounts seem as new, I adjusted the shift levers per the manual although I had to use a 1/2" drive extension to locate the notches in the shift control box as the Gage no. J-1308-B is not part of my tool inventory. It seemed to fit well.
      I don't believe the bell housing could be out of alignment with the engine, and the tranny was not disconnected from the bell housing or the driveline for that matter.
      How could I check for misalignment of these components??

      Wilber

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      • #4
        Paul it appears the rubber grommets are in good shape also. One other possibility I didn't mention was that I drained the tranny and refilled it with Amsoil transmission fluid. I thought that this fluid might be too slick causing the problem, drained it and replaced it with Mobil 1 40 weight with no improvement. Drained it again and it is now running original type 90 wgt gear lube. These gyrations have had no positive effect.

        Wilber

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        • #5
          Wilber,

          The Champion uses two special "dowel bolts" to maintain the bellhousing alignment with the engine block. Were these reinstalled in their proper locations when the engine was reinstalled?

          Paul
          Winston-Salem, NC
          Visit The NEW Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: www.studebakerskytop.com
          Paul
          Winston-Salem, NC
          Visit The Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: www.studebakerskytop.com

          Comment


          • #6
            I would put the car up on jackstands and then shift the car into third and check the shift linkage for binding and if not binding disconnect the linkage from the transmission and then manually shift the lever on the transmission to see if there was a n allignment problem. Stuff happens after forty years and it would only take a minor bend change and the shifter would not move to engage third gear fully. Had the same thing happen with the 54 back when it still had the flathead. Had it in the garage making it look pretty so I changed out the grommets and then it would pop out of third in overdrive.

            Since I never had a Studebaker shopmanual I just lined up the detents at neutral and made sure that the geras would engage fully.

            Well they wouldnt so I adjusted the rod accordingly and it quit popping out of third.

            If you car is ugly then it better be fast.....

            65 2dr sedan
            64 2dr sedan (Pinkie)
            61 V8 Tcab
            61 Tcab 20R powered
            55 Commander Wagon
            54 Champion Wagon
            46 Gibson Model A
            50 JD MC
            If you car is ugly then it better be fast.....

            65 2dr sedan
            64 2dr sedan (Pinkie)
            61 V8 Tcab
            63 Tcab 20R powered
            55 Commander Wagon
            54 Champion Wagon
            46 Gibson Model A
            50 JD MC
            45 Agricat
            67 Triumph T100
            66 Bultaco Matadore

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            • #7
              Paul/Studebakerkid;
              Thanks for your input fellows;
              Paul I don't remember checking the dowels, is there a means of checking for them without separating the engine and bell housing?
              Studebakerkid, I have had the linkage loose and it appears the levers move smoothly to both extremities. I have readjusted the linkage but did it in the neutral position, didn't check them to see if they allowed travel to the extremes of the lever travel. I don't know of any trauma which would have effected the linkage length/travel.
              Could the amount of load on the motor mounts applied by tightening their mounting bolts effect the ability of the linkage to hold in place?? What torque value should be applied to these bolts?

              Wilber
              Ozark, MO

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              • #8
                Paul, there should be a holes in the bell housing without bolts through to the engine should there not? If those holes when probed are not at least as deep as the bell housing casting wouldn't that indicate a pin?

                Studebakerkid, I guess marking the travel while attached then taking loose the linkage and checking the lever travel against the previous marking should determine if the linkage rods have bent??

                Wilber

                Comment


                • #9
                  Wilbur, you could just have a coincidence happening with your transmission that isnt related to your recent work on it.
                  I had a similar experience with a transmission that turned out to be too much end play on the input shaft.The extra end play allows the gears to disengage under coasting or decceleration due to the helical cut of the gears. The angled cut of the gears forces them to slide latterally under load. If the end play is too great, it will actually "shift" itself in to neutral. This is an often overlooked problem in standard transmissions.
                  Of course it could also be miss-alignment of the bellhousing,but,if you are certain it hasn't been disturbed this could be something to look at.
                  The fix is to shim with a thrust washer between the input bearing and input gear.
                  Bez Auto Alchemy
                  573-318-8948
                  http://bezautoalchemy.com


                  "Don't believe every internet quote" Abe Lincoln

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                  • #10
                    quote:Originally posted by Wilber Kaylor

                    Paul, there should be a holes in the bell housing without bolts through to the engine should there not? If those holes when probed are not at least as deep as the bell housing casting wouldn't that indicate a pin?

                    Wilber
                    Wilber,

                    According to the parts book and the description/illustrations in the shop manual, these are what some would call "body bound bolts".....special bolts that are like a dowel pin but with a head on one end, and threaded on the other with a nut. Similar to a shoulder bolt.

                    The Studebaker V8s used dowel [u]pins</u>, but the Champion engines used these dowel bolts in the '50s, and IIRC up thru the end of the Champion flathead in 1960.

                    Paul
                    Winston-Salem, NC
                    Visit The NEW Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: www.studebakerskytop.com
                    Paul
                    Winston-Salem, NC
                    Visit The Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: www.studebakerskytop.com

                    Comment

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