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T90 tranny - year ID

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  • r1lark
    replied
    This is getting interesting! I checked the cast-in number on my short tailshaft T86 (out of a '47) that will go into my '54 sedan. It's says T86E-1A on the case! The p/n for a '47 Commander T86 trans (w/OD) case is 523187, by the way. A '47 Commander trans case without OD is p/n 521743. In fact, checking the parts books, these part numbers for the T86 cases are the same from '47 thru '57.

    Now this really has me wondering. First exhibit was the T90 straight 3-speed that was pulled from my low mileage '55 E7 pickup when it was upgraded to OD. It is marked T86E-1 on the case:


    Started to go next to the storage place where my '55 E7 is stored, to look at the number on its case. The tranny currently in that is a T90 w/OD out of a '57 truck that had a Commander six. Wait stupid....look at the parts books.

    So, looking at the parts books for the '49 thru '56 trucks, guess what?? The transmission case part number for a T90 with OD is 523187....same as the car T86 thru '57. The non-OD T90 case is p/n 521743, which is also the same as a car T86 thru '57. In fact, the truck T90 maintains these same part numbers for LHC trucks all the way through the 8E ('63/'64) trucks.

    So what can we take away from all this? Ron (who is probably the only one who has continued to read thru all this anyway.......), there seems to be nothing out of the ordinary for your T90 to have the T86E-1A casting number on the case. Different Warner transmissions used that basic case, including transmissions built as T90s and transmissions built as T86s. Same as for Studebaker casting numbers -- they don't tell the [u]whole</u> story.

    edited for grammer

    Paul
    Winston-Salem, NC
    Visit The NEW Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: www.studebakerskytop.com

    Leave a comment:


  • Ron Dame
    replied
    It certainly is built like a T-90, but the case has T86E-1A cast on the side, with R10 on the overdrive. I guess I'll wait until I do the swap and pull the tranny down to see what it needs as well as when it was made..the case anyway, if it's really T90 guts in a T86 case, the year won't make any difference anyway.

    I wonder why someone would swap cases?

    As far as the 185 OHV goes, I lack installing the rear plate and dial indicating the bellhousing. Then I have a bunch of underhood detailing to do. I also have a twin trac unit to install sometime, but it's down on the list.

    quote:Originally posted by r1lark

    Ron,

    If it is a 6-bolt top cover, and has straight-cut first gear, it's a T-90. When you get it out, you can look at the numbers stamped on the top flange next to the stamped cover to determine the year manufactured.

    Here's a hint: T-90 and T-86 blocking rings should interchange. The complete synchro will. Remember that while the first place to look for problems is the blocking rings, but there are a number of other items to look at on the syncro and the 2nd & 3rd gears also that can contribute to problems.

    I've got a T-86 short shaft on the workbench that I am finishing up on right now (just got some needed snap rings from SASCO yesterday) that will go into my '54 sedan (V8/3 speed with OD).

    Paul
    Winston-Salem, NC
    Visit The NEW Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: www.studebakerskytop.com
    Ron Dame
    '63 Champ

    Leave a comment:


  • r1lark
    replied
    Ron,

    If it is a 6-bolt top cover, and has straight-cut first gear, it's a T-90. When you get it out, you can look at the numbers stamped on the top flange next to the stamped cover to determine the year manufactured.

    Here's a hint: T-90 and T-86 blocking rings should interchange. The complete synchro will. Remember that while the first place to look for problems is the blocking rings, but there are a number of other items to look at on the syncro and the 2nd & 3rd gears also that can contribute to problems.

    I've got a T-86 short shaft on the workbench that I am finishing up on right now (just got some needed snap rings from SASCO yesterday) that will go into my '54 sedan (V8/3 speed with OD).

    Paul
    Winston-Salem, NC
    Visit The NEW Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: www.studebakerskytop.com

    Leave a comment:


  • Ron Dame
    replied
    Paul, It's still in the truck, so pictures may be tough, but as I've stated earlier, it has the lower ratio straight cut 1st. I remember that from when I installed it. The truck originally had a T90 with no overdrive and really worn syncros. I soon (1992 or thereabouts) bought what was supposed to be a T90 OD from the guy in PA who had a reputation of selling substandard used parts as good parts. What I got was a T86 OD (helical 1st)with very noisy bearings.

    The trans that's in the truck now I purchased from someone in eastern NC, I forgot his name, Tritt perhaps? He had this one, had opened it, saw the straight gears, but knew nothing about it other than he was told it was good. I confirmed the straight 1st when I put it in. It is pretty good overall except it leaks and it pops out of second, so I want to freshen it up when I do the engine swap. It appears lots of the internals varied between years and versions, so I'm not sure what blocking rings I'll need. I've got the gaskets and seals already.

    I searched the archives again, and found a thread about someone who had T90 internals in a T86 E case...maybe I have the exact same thing.

    Ron

    quote:Originally posted by r1lark

    Ron,

    Post a few pics! Also, you may want to look at the first gear to see if it is helical or straight cut (trucks had straight cut first gears).

    Paul
    Winston-Salem, NC
    Visit The NEW Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: www.studebakerskytop.com
    Ron Dame
    '63 Champ

    Leave a comment:


  • r1lark
    replied
    Ron,

    Post a few pics! Also, you may want to look at the first gear to see if it is helical or straight cut (trucks had straight cut first gears).

    Paul
    Winston-Salem, NC
    Visit The NEW Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: www.studebakerskytop.com

    Leave a comment:


  • Ron Dame
    replied
    And am I correct that the T90 uses the T86 case, but with different internals?

    Yes the 8E5 SHOULD have a T90, but this trans is not original to the truck. I do not know what it came out of, but it has the straight cut first gear and lower 1st gear ratio.

    quote:Originally posted by Transtar60


    The 8E5 should have a T-90B.



    3E38
    4E2
    4E28
    5E13
    7E7
    8E7
    8E12
    8E28

    59 Lark
    etc
    Ron Dame
    '63 Champ

    Leave a comment:


  • Tom Bredehoft
    replied
    Slide in yoke is long tail shaft.

    [img=left]http://www.alink.com/personal/tbredehoft/Avatar1.jpg[/img=left]
    Tom Bredehoft
    '53 Commander Coupe (since 1959)
    '55 President (6H Y6) State Sedan
    (Under Construction 617 hrs.)
    '05 Legacy Ltd Wagon
    All Indiana built cars

    Leave a comment:


  • Ron Dame
    replied
    I guess I did not finish my sentance before I hit send. It has overdrive, how do you tell a long from a short with overdrive? It does have a slide-in yoke.

    Ron Dame
    '63 Champ

    Leave a comment:


  • StudeRich
    replied
    quote:Originally posted by Ron Dame

    I'm not sure how you tell a short from a long output shaft.
    Very simple, the short tail housing Tranny has the bolted driveshaft yoke, the Long tail housing Tranny has the slide-in Yoke, for a one piece driveshaft. The rear of the Trans. would be long and tapered.

    StudeRich

    Leave a comment:


  • Ron Dame
    replied
    AFAIR, the T90 used the T86 case. This is a truck trans, straight cut and lower 1st. The '63 6's used V* bellhousing and clutches..pilot bearing too. With OD, I'm not sure how you tell a short from a long output shaft.


    quote:Originally posted by StudeRich

    In a Truck you should have a T-90, but obviously you have a T-86 car tranny for a V-8, which WOULD have had a different Input shaft and probably bolt pattern. Does the Input shaft fit a 6 Cyl. clutch disc. and into a 6 Cyl. flywheel?

    All of the T-86E's I have seen were long tail, for a slide-in driveshaft also, which was never used in a Truck.

    Does it have the proper bolted on driveshaft yoke like it should for a Truck?

    Didn't we go through this scenario before? If not it was someone with the same mixed up Car/Truck parts! [:0]

    StudeRich
    Ron Dame
    '63 Champ

    Leave a comment:


  • StudeRich
    replied
    In a Truck you should have a T-90, but obviously you have a T-86 car tranny for a V-8, which WOULD have had a different Input shaft and probably bolt pattern. Does the Input shaft fit a 6 Cyl. clutch disc. and into a 6 Cyl. flywheel?

    All of the T-86E's I have seen were long tail, for a slide-in driveshaft also, which was never used in a Truck.

    Does it have the proper bolted on driveshaft yoke like it should for a Truck?

    Didn't we go through this scenario before? If not it was someone with the same mixed up Car/Truck parts! [:0]

    StudeRich

    Leave a comment:


  • Tom Bredehoft
    replied
    Yes, the top edge of the tranny has a date stamp on it. I was astounded to pop the cover on mine and find it said B 289. I knew it was behind a 170. Seems it was made some year on the 28th day of September. I no longer remember the year codes, so whatever you find, I can't help.

    [img=left]http://www.alink.com/personal/tbredehoft/Avatar1.jpg[/img=left]
    Tom Bredehoft
    '53 Commander Coupe (since 1959)
    '55 President (6H Y6) State Sedan
    (Under Construction 617 hrs.)
    '05 Legacy Ltd Wagon
    All Indiana built cars

    Leave a comment:


  • Ron Dame
    started a topic T90 tranny - year ID

    T90 tranny - year ID

    I've FINALLY got the 185 OHV 6 put together after about 5 years of lack of money, lack of time and really incompetent machinists in the area...that's another story though.

    When I do the engine swap into the '63 Champ, I am going to rebuild the tranny, a T90 with overdrive. It leaks oil like a sieve, and pops out of second on decel, so I suspect I may have some excess clearance in the blocker rings..dunno yet.

    This trans is not original to the truck, it's from an earlier truck, but I do not know what year. Some of the internal parts apparently
    changed through the model years, and I need to know what year tranny I have. From the trans on the drivers side, near the top is cast T86E-1A 4

    The overdrive has
    R10B 1E
    8B
    J5 4 (?)

    AFAIR, there are numbers stamped on top, but I'd have to pull the trans first to read them, and I may be wrong on this anyway.

    Can anyone hep me ID what year truck this tranny is from? There are some eBay parts I might buy IF they are correct for this unit.

    Thanks!

    Ron


    Ron Dame
    '63 Champ
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