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  • Converting from R-12 to 134

    I used the search feature on this site, but no hits.

    I want to convert the Hawk Air Conditioning from R-12 to 134. It still has the old York compressor and all the other accompanying parts. I'm not ready to replace the compressor, but do have to replace all the hoses. I see a lot of conversion kits that only require new valves and the R-134. Has anyone used these kits and to what degree of success?

    I suppose the conversion process gets easier... my brother spent $400.00 ten years ago to convert his Ford truck to R-134. They replaced hoses, compressor, dryer, etc. Later, I converted my daughter's old Mercedes, replacing the compressor, dryer and valve. Some concern that introduction of R-134 into the system would turn the remaining freon and oil into a "gum". I don't want that to happen, but I'm not ready to replace the entire A/C system like I did the Mercedes.

    Any thoughts??



    Laisez le bon temps roulez avec un Studebaker
    Laisez le bon temps roulez avec un Studebaker

  • #2
    Michael,

    Contact John Poulos (Forum member JDP) he has a product called Freeze 12 you might want to consider. But that aside he probably has done exactly what you have considered several times. I'm having my Avanti rebuilt and the York factory AC compressor will be removed to install a Supercharger and then we will install a cylinder shaped "Sanden" R134A compressor about where the surge tank is located.

    <div align="left">John</div id="left">

    <div align="left">'63 Avanti, R1, Auto, AC, PW (unrestored)</div id="left">
    sigpic
    John
    63R-2386
    Resto-Mod by Michael Myer

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    • #3
      About 2 years ago, I converted my '92 daily driver Corvette to 134 after the condenser was hit with a stone off of a dump truck. Since I live in SW Florida, A/C is used pretty daily trough the year. I replaced the condenser, dryer, and a high & low pressure hose manifold. I had the system fully vac'd and the access ports/valve changed. Then it was topped with the appropriate amount of 134. No problems. The air is ice cold as it was with the R12. Just a whole lot cheaper. I also did the same basic change over on Porsche 944 for the same reason, holed condenser. It was just a cold afterwards. No problems and once again the air was used daily.

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      • #4
        I recently got a 93 Ranger pickup that has a R-12 system & stopped at an a/c shop in Riverside to see what they would charge for the conversion. I was told they recommended staying with R-12 & it was still available at $3.80 an ounce, which gets real expensive in no time! I have since ordered Freeze 12, since it's compatible with both R-12 & R-134. One thing to keep in mind is the molecular structure of 134 is alot smaller, hence it is recommended but not required to have different hoses & fittings to prevent leaks. Alot has gone on since the old York compressor was built & the Sanden is more compact & takes less power to move it, but if you stay with the York, then make sure whoever vacuums the system, removes all the oil & replaces it with the correct oil for either the Freeze 12 or R-134. A flush wouldn't hurt & may be required too, I don't know for sure.

        60 Lark convertible
        61 Champ
        62 Daytona convertible
        63 G.T. R-2,4 speed
        63 Avanti (2)
        66 Daytona Sport Sedan
        59 Lark wagon, now V-8, H.D. auto!
        60 Lark convertible V-8 auto
        61 Champ 1/2 ton 4 speed
        62 Champ 3/4 ton 5 speed o/drive
        62 Champ 3/4 ton auto
        62 Daytona convertible V-8 4 speed & 62 Cruiser, auto.
        63 G.T. Hawk R-2,4 speed
        63 Avanti (2) R-1 auto
        64 Zip Van
        66 Daytona Sport Sedan(327)V-8 4 speed
        66 Cruiser V-8 auto

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        • #5
          If you are replacing the hoses alreay, it's not a big deal to replace the valves. But you'll need to replace the condensor and the dryer for the system to work as good as an R12 system. There are more fins per inch on a condensor designed for R-134a. If the system is opened up, you should but a new dryer in. The compressor should work with either form of freon.

          ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Tom - Mulberry, FL

          1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2125.60)

          1964 Studebaker Commander 170-1V, 3-speed w/OD (Cost to Date: $623.67)

          Tom - Bradenton, FL

          1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2514.10)
          1964 Studebaker Commander - 170 1V, 3-Speed w/OD

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          • #6
            Don't convert it. R-134 requires higher head presure w/ a larger condensor as well as barrier hoses (rubber hose w/ nylon insert). Some peaple do it and a year or so find a million pinhole leaks in the original hoses. R-134 also w eat the metal line, etc from the inside. I use MP-39 or freeze-12 on customers cars requiring R-12.That gov't tax was a joke. Now they are looking for another alternative.

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            • #7
              quote:Originally posted by winchesterhawk

              Don't convert it. R-134 requires higher head presure w/ a larger condensor as well as barrier hoses (rubber hose w/ nylon insert). Some peaple do it and a year or so find a million pinhole leaks in the original hoses. R-134 also w eat the metal line, etc from the inside. I use MP-39 or freeze-12 on customers cars requiring R-12.That gov't tax was a joke. Now they are looking for another alternative.
              The hoses were being replaced, but the part about barrier hoses is a good point. As for R-134a eating metal lines, I've never heard of this. My Ranger has 230K on it and the freon hasn't eaten the lines or the hose. It still blows cold (though my fan isn't working ).

              The condensor doesn't need to be larger is size, just in volume. As I mentioned above, the same size condensor will work if it's made for R-134a. The new condensors have more tubes and fins per square inch than the same size R-12 condensor (OEM).

              ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              Tom - Mulberry, FL

              1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2125.60)

              1964 Studebaker Commander 170-1V, 3-speed w/OD (Cost to Date: $623.67)

              Tom - Bradenton, FL

              1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2514.10)
              1964 Studebaker Commander - 170 1V, 3-Speed w/OD

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              • #8
                I bought one of the $35 kits and converted my 89 dodge van about 5 years ago. No problems. It still cools fine.
                Rob

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                • #9
                  I use Enviro-Safe. It doesn't need to be installed in a vacuum and has a pine scent for sniffing out leaks. I have it in my 84 El Camino and 76 Chrysler currently and have used it in my son's LSC, a 2000 Seville and a 74 El Camino. Here's a link.


                  http://www.es-refrigerants.com/produ.../t/refrigerant

                  ErnieR




                  On its way to a 15.097 Island Dragway Great Meadows NJ Spring 2006.

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                  • #10
                    My late lamented 93 Saturn took a rock in the condenser. I replaced that, the dryer, then used a conversion kit to replace as many O-rings as I could get at and put the adapters on the fittings. It worked fine for 5 years but leaked slowly. I just put a can of 134A in every year. The A/C was not quite as cold as it used to be but it worked right up until some bozo rear-ended me in February.

                    Nathan

                    _______________
                    http://stude.vonadatech.com
                    _______________
                    http://stude.vonadatech.com
                    https://jeepster.vonadatech.com

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                    • #11
                      Update on my use of Freeze 12. Charged it friday night with the oil & leak detector supplied in the kit. Took the truck out today in mid 90 degree heat & the temp probe I have in the A/C duct indicated around 55 degrees. So far so good!

                      60 Lark convertible
                      61 Champ
                      62 Daytona convertible
                      63 G.T. R-2,4 speed
                      63 Avanti (2)
                      66 Daytona Sport Sedan
                      59 Lark wagon, now V-8, H.D. auto!
                      60 Lark convertible V-8 auto
                      61 Champ 1/2 ton 4 speed
                      62 Champ 3/4 ton 5 speed o/drive
                      62 Champ 3/4 ton auto
                      62 Daytona convertible V-8 4 speed & 62 Cruiser, auto.
                      63 G.T. Hawk R-2,4 speed
                      63 Avanti (2) R-1 auto
                      64 Zip Van
                      66 Daytona Sport Sedan(327)V-8 4 speed
                      66 Cruiser V-8 auto

                      Comment

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