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OT ?? Busted off bolts in Al heads...

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  • OT ?? Busted off bolts in Al heads...

    This might be OT since its not a stude engine but it IS in my stude....

    As some know, I have a ford v6 in my '53. So, I went to take off the intake manifold yesterday to replace the gaskets since the valley section is leaking in the back and making for a dirty engine bay. This engine has Aluminum heads and aluminum intake. Well, I snapped off 2 of the bolts and the stumps are stuck in the heads. Just got back from the junkyard getting replacement bolts.... Well, I sprayed the bolt stumps with Kroil last night and this morning and tried some heating with a propane torch (got the stumps red). Some carefull twisting with a vice-grips on the bolts does not look like its going to break these loose. I fear the steel bolts are galled/corroded into the aluminum. Any other suggestions before I pull the heads and take them into a machine shop ?

    This was supposed to be a afternoon project and now its turned into a major deal. [}][xx(] I should have left it alone till after Cedar Rapids or started on it sooner!! Good thing I didn't wait until the week before the meet though as I still have time to get it fixed.

    Thanks.

    Jeff in ND

    '53 Champion Hardtop

    Jeff in ND

  • #2
    Bummer, Jeff. One suggestion, try using a hammer and drive the rusted off screws into the heads. Not far, just enough to shock them loose from their frozen position. It certainly can't hurt, and may turn the trick.

    [img=left]http://www.alink.com/personal/tbredehoft/Avatar1.jpg[/img=left]
    Tom Bredehoft
    '53 Commander Coupe (since 1959)
    '55 President (6H Y6) State Sedan
    (Under Construction 617 hrs.)
    '05 Legacy Ltd Wagon
    All Indiana built cars

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    • #3
      I just read of a product I think made by Locktite that freezes the bolt & also has a penetrating lube in it that after a couple mins. frees up the bolt without damage. I believe it was in the June issue of Powerblock magazine that is available online. I tried to access it again but its stuck on page 40 & isnt downloading right now.

      60 Lark convertible
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      63 Avanti (2)
      66 Daytona Sport Sedan
      59 Lark wagon, now V-8, H.D. auto!
      60 Lark convertible V-8 auto
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      62 Daytona convertible V-8 4 speed & 62 Cruiser, auto.
      63 G.T. Hawk R-2,4 speed
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      66 Daytona Sport Sedan(327)V-8 4 speed
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      • #4
        Here's a couple of thoughts..
        Getting the busted stud remnants red hot is BAD.
        That will make them harder to get out.
        (The hot bolt will get 'tighter' in the hole because the aluminum sucks out more heat than the steel bolt will...)
        Heat up everything around the bolt, but not the bolt.
        Then cool the busted bolt itself, without cooling the aluminum head.
        ViceGrips are fine.....
        (If you have enough sticking out to grab, you are lucky)..
        Try clamping the ViceGrips on and heating the head..
        Then take an old candle from the dinner table, and hold it on the busted stud..
        The heat from the stud will draw the wax (and the heat) from the busted bolt.
        Then try turning it out...
        --------------------------
        If that doesn't work, then drill out the busted bolt and re-tap the hole.
        HTIH...
        Jeff[8D]




        http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock
        HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

        Jeff


        Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



        Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

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        • #5
          Well, it seems to get worse....

          I worked on one of them and managed to twist it off too short to grab. I feared this would happen I did try heating the head around the bolt a couple of times to no avail.

          So, start pulling heads. Busted 1 socket (3/8 drive) and another feels like it will round off the head bolt so tomorrow I am off to sears for a 6 pt 1/2" drive 15mm socket. Breaker bar was not feeling good either. The 2 middle head bolts seem extra troublesome for some reason. Hope I don't bust off the headbolts !!!!!!! I've had one of these engines apart before about 10ys ago and never had this much grief [V] Maybe the troublesome bolts are the ones that require pipe goop on the threads (need to check shop manual).

          Jeff in ND

          '53 Champion Hardtop

          Jeff in ND

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          • #6
            With those head bolts, use a brass hammer or a brass rod and a BFH and give each head bold a good hard smack or two before trying to loosen them. Its rather crude but works sometimes.

            Good luck!


            Jeff Jones
            Tucson Arizona
            1947 M-5

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            • #7
              Mig weld a washer to the top of the bolt, then a mig weld a larger nut to the top of that washer by filling up the inside of the nut with weld. (have a wrench or vice grip ready).

              Wait until the color leaves the nut and washer, and gently turn it out.

              This actually works very well! It even works on fasteners broken off below the surface if you are careful.

              54 Champion coupe
              48 Champion Convert
              54 Champion coupe
              48 Champion Convert

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              • #8
                drill the stud out and then heli-coil the whole.

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                • #9
                  I don't know what type of Ford v6 you have, but I know that some newer motors have one-time use head bolts - apparently, they stretch as you torque them to spec. That won't help you get them out, but may help you in other ways.

                  --george

                  1963 Lark Daytona HT - 63V J8 175
                  53-54 C/Ks, 55 Speedsters, 63 Daytonas, Wagonaires Registries

                  1963 Lark Daytona HT - 63V J8 175
                  53-54 C/Ks, 55 Speedsters, 63 Daytonas, Wagonaires Registries
                  http://www.teamwetworks.com/stregs/

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                  • #10
                    Well,

                    Got one head off w/o any blood or broken stuff. Just coolant on the garage floor as I should have drained the block I [}] liquids on the garage floor.... Next is the other one. It just HAD to bust off one intake bolt in each head of course. I'll take the opportunity to get the heads cleaned up and new valve seals after those !@#$% bolts stumps are out. Most likely helicoils will be needed. I remember now that 10yrs ago I rebuilt one of these and the used head I bought from the machine shop to replace a cracked one needed to be brought back for a helicoil in one of the intake bolt holes. These will get some anti-sieze I think on reassembly. I had to replace a timing cover once doing a water pump as the bolts galled into the alumimum cover and cracked the boss apart when I put the serious wrench on it. Galvanic action IMO.

                    I am not sure if these use the TTY (torque to yield) head bolts or not. I used all new ones on the other engine per the ford shop manual but these don't really look like TTY bolts.

                    If I was smart I'd swap in the rebuilt long block I have sitting under the bench I got at a auction 9 yrs ago for $150.... Hope its still OK. Time is short and so is my temper tho...

                    Jeff in ND

                    '53 Champion Hardtop

                    Jeff in ND

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                    • #11
                      Let's pile on Jeff!

                      FWIW, while you've got the heads off, have them checked for cracks. My engine machinist says the Ford V6 are the worst for cracking. In fact, there is an offshore source making reproductions which are supposedly better than the OEM Ford heads.

                      thnx, jack vines

                      PackardV8
                      PackardV8

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                      • #12
                        And don't forget to replace that candle or you're gonna be SOL for any candlelit dinner for a long time to come...And Tom.. it's "do the trick"...not "turn the trick" ...I can't imagine what you were thinking...

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                        • #13
                          Do...turn....after a certain age it no longer matters. Besides, I thought turn was specific to stuck screws.

                          [img=left]http://www.alink.com/personal/tbredehoft/Avatar1.jpg[/img=left]
                          Tom Bredehoft
                          '53 Commander Coupe (since 1959)
                          '55 President (6H Y6) State Sedan
                          (Under Construction 617 hrs.)
                          '05 Legacy Ltd Wagon
                          All Indiana built cars

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I would be careful with heat if there alumium heads i would drill them out to relive the pressure and use some "easy outs" to pull the rest of the bolts out.




                            Ryan

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                            • #15
                              Dropped the heads off at the machine shop along with the intake (couple of stripped out holes in that too ).

                              For grins I attempted to extract one of the busted bolts once I had the head on the bench. Heated the bolt boss through the open water port next to it and worked it with grips and later even welded a nut onto it. Managed to break it off flush at that point. No suprise. When this goes back together these intake bolts are getting anti-sieze.

                              Now need to figure out what is going on with the head bolts decision. I think there are both regular and TTY bolts available. I don't know anymore what I used on one of these same type engines 10yrs ago. I may still have the box of used bolts from then to find the P/N. My mission tonight is to hopefully find those.... Seems to me they were not TTY bolts but maybe they were and I used the wrong torque specs. Could be the reason I have had issues with that engine (see another old thread on stovehuggers about that!).

                              Too confusing [}]. Cannot find any online info from the felpro or sealed power sites who make these bolts either. I've got the OEM shop manual but that may be for the OEM hardware only. I got a coworker who has "alldata" and he's going to check tonight.

                              Jeff in ND

                              '53 Champion Hardtop

                              Jeff in ND

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