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  • Thomas63R2
    replied
    Dick, the judge was at the front of the car and the points deduct was for the front park lamps. I didn't ask all the other participants how they were scored, but one other person did share that they had the same deduct at that same show.

    This is a hobby and I am not wrapped up in coming home with the big awards - there are a lot of cars nicer than mine. I too am thankful for the job the judges do, its not an easy volunteer job.

    Thomas

    Long time hot rodder
    Packrat junk collector
    '63 Avanti R2 4 speed

    Leave a comment:


  • edpjr
    replied
    The park lamps go out on my '63 Avanti when the headlights come on. Thanks for verifying that's the way it's supposed to work.


    quote:Originally posted by JGK 940

    quote:Originally posted by Thomas63R2

    On my '63 Avanti when I turn on the headlights the front park lamps turn off. The turn signal function still works fine.
    For every American car built prior to the 1968 model year, this is exactly how it's supposed to work. When your car was built it was actually illegal, in most states, for any vehicle to be in motion on a public road with its parking lights lit. Those lights were initially intended to show where a stationary vehicle sat (on, say, a dark country road) without blinding an oncoming driver. That's why they're called parking lights.

    The parking-lights-on-with-headlights thing started concurrently with (and was mandated, IIRC, by the same Fedrulations as) the lighted front and rear side markers that took effect for '68. The new idea was that the general outline of any new vehicle should be plainly visible, whether parked or in motion, should one or more of its headlights or other bulbs burn out. This is why those side markers must also be reflectors.

    Anyone who would deduct points from a MY '63 automobile because the parking lights go out when the headlights come on should not be judging that category until he/she catches up on a little automotive history.

    HOWEVER: it has always been, and will always remain, simple good manners to use only parking lights while hunting for a spot in a drive-in movie, especially after the main feature's started

    Keoni Dibelka / HiloFoto
    In Hawai'i; on Hawai'i; on the Windward Side
    If da salt air never chew 'em up bumbye da lava will...

    Leave a comment:


  • DEEPNHOCK
    replied
    My late horse Sham had a perpetually dirty sheath.
    He was comfortable with it, but heaven help you if you tried to clean it.
    That judge just had a penile obsession[:0].
    That, and posting, happens a whole bunch in the horse world.
    Jeff[8D]


    quote:Originally posted by jclary

    In the same year, I ran across two anal retentive judges at two entirely unrelated events. At a competitive horse event, a female judge docked me points for my gelding having a dirty sheath. I told her that if she ever judged my horse again, she could automatically dock the same points, but that I was sure, because of her obsession, that every horse she had would be perfectly clean in that area!
    <snip>

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  • Dick Steinkamp
    replied
    quote:Originally posted by Thomas63R2

    The points deduct was for the parking lamps going off when the headlamps were turned on. I don't remember the exact words, but he had me try the switch a couple of times, then told me my parking lamps were going out when the headlights were turned on. All the lights were working as they should.

    Is there any chance he meant the tail lights and not the front parking lights? (just trying to give the guy a break )

    Dick Steinkamp
    Bellingham, WA

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  • Skip Lackie
    replied
    quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp


    OTOH, there is little to no vacuum under full throttle. The vacuum advance doesn't move under full throttle.

    Dick Steinkamp
    Bellingham, WA
    You're right of course. I vaguely recall reading that the solenoid was activated/deactivated under full throttle -- but my memory is certainly not what it used to be. It's entirely possible that the shop manual just noted that the system had no effect one way or the other under full-throttle conditions. I still have both the car and the shop manual -- so I guess I could go look it up . . . .

    Skip Lackie
    Washington DC

    Leave a comment:


  • Dick Steinkamp
    replied
    quote:Originally posted by Skip Lackie
    The VSAD allows(ed) vacuum advance under three conditions: (1) engine cold, (2) full throttle (presumably for emergency situations), and (3) high gear.
    High gear makes sense since a lot of advance with a light throttle cruise gets the best mileage...and there is plenty of vacuum with a light throttle cruise.

    OTOH, there is little to no vacuum under full throttle. The vacuum advance doesn't move under full throttle.

    Dick Steinkamp
    Bellingham, WA

    Leave a comment:


  • jclary
    replied
    In the same year, I ran across two anal retentive judges at two entirely unrelated events. At a competitive horse event, a female judge docked me points for my gelding having a dirty sheath. I told her that if she ever judged my horse again, she could automatically dock the same points, but that I was sure, because of her obsession, that every horse she had would be perfectly clean in that area!

    At a car show, a judge wanted to count off points for the plastic overlay on my truck's dash. When I showed him the picture in the owner's manual, he said he didn't know anybody offered a padded dash in 1955. He did dock points for the gum wrapper in the ash tray.

    I try not to be too hard on the judges, it is a thankless job and one I refuse to participate.

    John Clary
    Greer, SC

    I have only two limitations ...BRAINS & ENERGY
    SDC member since 1975

    Leave a comment:


  • Skip Lackie
    replied
    quote:Originally posted by JGK 940


    VSAD: Vacuum Spark Advance Disconnect device. Most seriously FUBAR "smog control" scam ever foisted on the motoring public - which, given my hard-earned reputation as a tree-hugging environut, is saying something pretty dramatic.

    In an environutshell: If your car was built between about 1956 and 1973 and you wanted to register it or renew its registration in Southern California, the SF Bay Area or Sacramento in the '70's, you had to go to a DMV/CHP-approved shop and pay to have one of these plastic thingys stuck on your upper radiator hose and plumbed into the vacuum line between the carb/intake manifold and the distributor's vacuum advance diaphragm. When it worked "properly," you got full vacuum advance for starting and warmup but no vacuum advance at all once you reached operating temperature, regardless of throttle input.

    Bet you can imagine what they did for performance... and about how long it took most of us to rip'em back off and chance the fix-it tickets.

    Here's the science, just for grits & shins:

    http://www.arb.ca.gov/research/abstr...b-2-299-10.htm


    Keoni Dibelka / HiloFoto
    In Hawai'i; on Hawai'i; on the Windward Side
    If da salt air never chew 'em up bumbye da lava will...
    Some (all?) early-70s cars came with a VSAD, though they didn't all work in exactly the same way. I have a 70 Camaro with a 350 and 4-speed. The VSAD allows(ed) vacuum advance under three conditions: (1) engine cold, (2) full throttle (presumably for emergency situations), and (3) high gear. When I first bought the car, I didn't know what all that plumbing was for, but I figured it out when I noticed how the RPMs increased when you shifted the trans into high gear while sitting still with the engine idling.

    Skip Lackie
    Washington DC

    Leave a comment:


  • Skip Lackie
    replied
    quote:Originally posted by Thomas63R2

    The points deduct was for the parking lamps going off when the headlamps were turned on. I don't remember the exact words, but he had me try the switch a couple of times, then told me my parking lamps were going out when the headlights were turned on. All the lights were working as they should.

    Thomas

    Long time hot rodder
    Packrat junk collector
    '63 Avanti R2 4 speed
    The judge needs to go back to judging school. I recognize the difficulty of getting good amateur judges, but that's a pretty serious mistake for someone who's judging the authenticity of old cars. As far as I know, no pre-1968 American-made automobile came from the factory with parking lights that stayed on when the headlights were activated.

    Skip Lackie
    Washington DC

    Leave a comment:


  • Thomas63R2
    replied
    The points deduct was for the parking lamps going off when the headlamps were turned on. I don't remember the exact words, but he had me try the switch a couple of times, then told me my parking lamps were going out when the headlights were turned on. All the lights were working as they should.

    Thomas

    Long time hot rodder
    Packrat junk collector
    '63 Avanti R2 4 speed

    Leave a comment:


  • JGK 940
    replied
    quote:Originally posted by N8N

    along the same lines...

    I know for a fact that '68 Chrysler products had lighted sidemarkers. However, *1969* models only had reflectors on the sides. wonder how they got away with that? I don't believe that reflector-only would pass muster today, but I may be mistaken.
    Nope - right you are. For the first two years - MY '68 & '69 - the Feds required the amber on the front fender and the red on the back to be either a light or a reflector. Mustangs had lights at the front and reflectors at the rear in '68 and it seems to me my uncle's '68 Sedan de Ville had reflectors up front and lights out back. Mopar chose lights (nice small, round, universal style, great for customizing, at both front and rear of every line except Imperial) in '68 and reflectors across the board in '69. The requirement for both, at both ends, took effect for model year 1970.

    http://www.allpar.com/model/charger-sidelights.html

    Keoni Dibelka / HiloFoto
    In Hawai'i; on Hawai'i; on the Windward Side
    If da salt air never chew 'em up bumbye da lava will...

    Leave a comment:


  • JGK 940
    replied
    quote:Originally posted by N8N
    OK, I guess you're going to feel old again, because I'd really like to know what you're talking about I knew about the parking light thing having had a few cars older than I but I haven't a clue what a VSAD is or what it'd have to do with the radiator...
    VSAD: Vacuum Spark Advance Disconnect device. Most seriously FUBAR "smog control" scam ever foisted on the motoring public - which, given my hard-earned reputation as a tree-hugging environut, is saying something pretty dramatic.

    In an environutshell: If your car was built between about 1956 and 1973 and you wanted to register it or renew its registration in Southern California, the SF Bay Area or Sacramento in the '70's, you had to go to a DMV/CHP-approved shop and pay to have one of these plastic thingys stuck on your upper radiator hose and plumbed into the vacuum line between the carb/intake manifold and the distributor's vacuum advance diaphragm. When it worked "properly," you got full vacuum advance for starting and warmup but no vacuum advance at all once you reached operating temperature, regardless of throttle input.

    Bet you can imagine what they did for performance... and about how long it took most of us to rip'em back off and chance the fix-it tickets.

    Here's the science, just for grits & shins:

    http://www.arb.ca.gov/research/abstr...b-2-299-10.htm


    Keoni Dibelka / HiloFoto
    In Hawai'i; on Hawai'i; on the Windward Side
    If da salt air never chew 'em up bumbye da lava will...

    Leave a comment:


  • N8N
    replied
    quote:Originally posted by Skip Lackie

    quote:Originally posted by N8N

    along the same lines...

    I know for a fact that '68 Chrysler products had lighted sidemarkers. However, *1969* models only had reflectors on the sides. wonder how they got away with that? I don't believe that reflector-only would pass muster today, but I may be mistaken.

    nate

    --
    55 Commander Starlight
    http://members.cox.net/njnagel
    I know that the Federal rule does not require SEPARATE side marker lights. If the parking light wraps around the fender leading edge far enough to be visible from the side, it qualifies.

    Skip Lackie
    Washington DC
    I'm pretty sure that at least on the A-bodies (at the very least the Valiant,) the parking lights were still inboard of the headlights. Now I'm going to have to go look for a picture

    nate

    --
    55 Commander Starlight
    http://members.cox.net/njnagel

    Leave a comment:


  • Skip Lackie
    replied
    quote:Originally posted by N8N

    along the same lines...

    I know for a fact that '68 Chrysler products had lighted sidemarkers. However, *1969* models only had reflectors on the sides. wonder how they got away with that? I don't believe that reflector-only would pass muster today, but I may be mistaken.

    nate

    --
    55 Commander Starlight
    http://members.cox.net/njnagel
    I know that the Federal rule does not require SEPARATE side marker lights. If the parking light wraps around the fender leading edge far enough to be visible from the side, it qualifies.

    Skip Lackie
    Washington DC

    Leave a comment:


  • Dick Steinkamp
    replied
    If you WANT your parking lights to stay on with the headlights, just more the feed wire for the parking lights on the headlight switch over to the same terminal that feeds the dash lights.


    You say...

    "last years judging sheet there was a points deduct for the way my park lamps work."

    Could there have been an issue with your parking lights OTHER than they didn't stay on with the headlights? (bulb out, rear work but not front, wrong color front lenses (or bulbs), etc.)



    Dick Steinkamp
    Bellingham, WA

    Leave a comment:

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