Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Best brake fluid?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • BrianC
    replied
    Can anyone tell me how much neetsfoot oil should be put in the Hydravac system? Is the a substitute to neetsfoot oil?
    brian C

    Leave a comment:


  • WCP
    replied
    I still feel that water accumulation in Dot5 fluid is a myth. If water is getting into the system at the cylinders, then Dot5 will surely be coming out. Having bled many Dot5 systems over the years, I have never seen any evidence of water in the clear container, and it would surely be visible since the two fluids are not miscible. Technical papers are one thing, but practical analysis trumps that.

    Leave a comment:


  • mbstude
    replied
    I use Dot 3.

    Can't afford Dot 5.

    [)]

    Matthew Burnette
    Hazlehurst, GA

    Leave a comment:


  • BobPalma
    replied
    quote:Originally posted by bams50

    I'm watching this discussion with much interest... especially since there are conflicting opinions!

    Please continue!

    Robert (Bob) Andrews-
    [:0][:0][:0] HERE? CONFLICTING OPINIONS? BP

    Leave a comment:


  • fmarshall
    replied
    This thread should clear up alot of brake fluid myths.

    http://www.xs11.com/xs11-info/tech-t...ntroversy.html

    ========================
    63 Avanti R2, 4-Speed, 3.73 TT
    Martinez, CA

    Leave a comment:


  • WCP
    replied
    As per the factory manuals for our current daily drivers, I change the Dot3 fluid every 3 years. My experience shows it to be pointless to flush Dot5. No harm in doing it though.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dick Steinkamp
    replied
    The owners's manuals of my two newish daily drivers (one foreign one domestic) both require the brake fluid to be changed every 2 years...no mention of mileage.

    On ANY car using ANY fluid, I'd change it every two years. Certainly with DOT 3. At the least with DOT 5, I'd run a pint or two through the system, bleeding each wheel.

    I know some have gone decades without changing fluid and gotten away with it. I ran with scissors once and didn't hurt myself .

    If the car quits running, that's inconvenient. It it won't stop, that's deadly.

    Dick Steinkamp
    Bellingham, WA

    Leave a comment:


  • WCP
    replied
    I have never in all my years of working with Dot5 fluid seen any evidence of moisture in the braking system. That said, both my "everyday drivers" had Delco braking systems that are particularly well sealed and with bladders on the master cylinders. If moisture "pooling" was going to be a problem, it would have shown up during our cold Canadian winters. The braking performance of both of these vehicles was excellent and would essentially stand the vehicles on their noses if required. Our Jeep was used to pull trailers, and also made at least a dozen trips loaded with a family of four to Florida. I recall narrowly avoiding T-boning a car with Xmas packages blocking the windows that pulled across in front of me while driving the old Chev. With all four tires screeching, I missed hitting the passenger door by mere inches. I wish I had that braking performance with my current vehicles. I'm not a fan of ABS, by the way. I'm interested in learning of any real life evidence of moisture contamination or "pooling" with Dot5 fluid.

    Leave a comment:


  • Thomas63R2
    replied
    Not even the military considers Dot5 to be a lifetime fill, they have a service spec.

    I wasn't the guy who made the laws of nature. Heat then cool = moisture attraction. Regular brake fluid mixes the moisture throughout, silicone brake fluid gathers the moisture in low places.

    Practical reality check: most people NEVER change the brake fluid in their cars. Apparently without much ill effect. In other words, most people don't know what boiling brake fluid induced brake fade is like. Until they have a serious panic stop - and then they want to say their brakes weren't working when they hit the (fill in the blank).

    Second practical reality check: for most Dot5 filled hobby cars seeing limited driving and garage storage, the rate of moisture accumulation will be slow. Same with Dot3.

    It actually takes some pretty dramatic braking to reveal a lowered brake fluid boiling temperature. This is why I mentioned mountain driving - without knowing what your version of normal hard driving.

    Seriously, I believe you when you say you went 100k plus miles over 16 years on the original Dot5 fill. There are guys who have done the same with Dot3. Doesn't mean that the brake fluid performance 16 years on is the same as when the fluid was fresh.

    I like Dot5, don't get me wrong. Its just that neither is immune to nature.

    Thomas

    Long time hot rodder
    Packrat junk collector
    '63 Avanti R2 4 speed

    Leave a comment:


  • bams50
    replied
    I'm watching this discussion with much interest... especially since there are conflicting opinions!

    Please continue!

    Robert (Bob) Andrews- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys)
    Parish, central NY 13131





    Leave a comment:


  • WCP
    replied
    Thomas, I really don't think moisture is a problem with Dot5. My experience in the land of ice and snow certainly indicates that. You have to remember that Dot5 was originally developed for use by the US military in the high Arctic where moisture freezing would definitely be a problem. As to sprited driving, it is not recommended for racing, but otherwise it performs particularly well in normal hard driving.

    Leave a comment:


  • Thomas63R2
    replied
    For a completely new and dry system on a normally driven car, Dot 5. As noted, take care not to trap air bubbles in silicone fluid.

    Use a quality regular brake fluid in an aggresively, or competitively, driven car.

    The people who never flush a Dot 5 system, you are not doing your braking performance any favors. Just because silicone is not hydroscopic does not mean that moisture will not enter the fluid. As noted, what it does mean is that the moisture will gather in low spots rather than mixing throughout. I can guarantee that any long time silicone fluid will reveal moisture when drained. It is natural laws at work: when you use your brakes heat is generated and passed on to the fluid. As the brake fluid goes through heating and cooling cycles condensation will occur - you can't stop nature.

    For a light or normally driven car the water accumulation in a silicone filled system is not problematic. However, your brake fluid boiling temperature will be lowered, So repeated high speed stops will suffer. Practically no car gets repeated high speed stops unless you live in the mountains.

    Thomas

    Long time hot rodder
    Packrat junk collector
    '63 Avanti R2 4 speed

    Leave a comment:


  • WCP
    replied
    Used Dot5 fluid in my everyday drivers ('76 Jeep Cherokee &'73 Chev Biscayne wagon) from probably 1981 to 1997, when the Jeep was sold for farm service. No problems winter or summer! Put 100,000 miles on the Jeep after conversion without ever touching the hydraulic system, other than to adjust fluid levels after pad and shoe changes. I always kept any used fluid and filtered it through laboratory filters (or a couple of coffee filters) and used that for master cylinder topup. Back then Dot5 was not readily available in Canada and pricy. I've had my Studebakers on Dot5 since the mid to late '70s, with no problems, including brake switches. When I did the conversion on the daily drivers, I performed a solvent flush of the lines with some volatile solvent (can't remember which) and dried the lines with compressed air, and then installed new rear cylinders and remanufactured calipers. In the past 10 years, I've been tempted to convert my current daily drivers, but have held off due to the more complex ABS systems, and lack of experience info fron anyone else that has done it. For the older cars, I wouldn't use anything else. I think most problems with Dot5 are the result of poor conversion techniques, such as simply doing a flush with Dot5 fluid on an Dot3 system. Bob, if you are replacing the brake lines and installing new cylinders, that is the time to introduce the Dot5 fluid.

    Leave a comment:


  • 4-speed wagonaire
    replied
    Silicone will hold air bubbles forever (or close to it), never shake the can, never pump mutiple times when bleeding and not too good for performance use (if it boils you're done). I let mean ol mister gravity do most of the work when bleeding. Takes a while but all the air comes out of the system without the chanc of introducing bubbles. Do one wheel at a time starting at farest point, use a hose and catch can. My 62 Bird took almost three days but it was air free and had a very nice pedel feel.

    Bill, Many Fords and one great Stude!

    Leave a comment:


  • Gunslinger
    replied
    Most performance car automakers specifically prohibit the use of silicone brake fluid. These cars, when driven hard and competitively have problems where air bubbles form in various parts of the system and cause pedal sponginess. For some reason it causes problems with anti-lock brakes as well. Not that I expect old Studebakers have those issues, but whichever type one chooses, the entire system must be completely flushed of the previous type of fluid. Mix DOT 3 and DOT 5 silicone fluid and you get a milky, cloudy mess and gunk that creates serious braking issues.

    Avanti Motors began using silicone brake fluid as factory fill about 1970 and advertised that fact in their literature. They must certainly have been comfortable doing so. It does make me wonder how many Avanti owners unknowingly mixed fluid types leading to problems such as poor braking performance. It could be at the root of much unhappiness with the original design brakes, when it may not be the design at all, just lack of communication in proper servicing. It could even be the root of some collisions...just speculation on my part.




    Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X