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56 Champion Alternator conversion?

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  • 56 Champion Alternator conversion?

    This guy has a lot of electrical information
    http://www.madelectrical.com/electri...hreewire.shtml

    I used his three wire kit to install a GM self regulating alternator in my 64 Champ V8.


    3E38
    4E2
    4E28
    5E13
    7E7
    8E7
    8E12
    8E28
    4E2
    59 Lark
    etc

  • #2
    56 Champion Alternator conversion?

    Has anyone ever used a GM 1wire alternator? Can some maybe point me to some good info?

    Orlando FLA
    Orlando FLA

    Comment


    • #3
      Lee DeLaBarre was looking into getting the old JEt City Studebaker brackets remade that will allow a Delco 10SI or 12SI alternator to bolt right on. Might want to see if he has any of those. You will have to pull the generator bracket studs out of your manifold to use it. Alternately you can get a generic chrome adjustable bracket at your FLAPS which looks like it might work with only a little modding. It was pretty much a drop in operation on my '55; I used the Jet City bracket because I think I may want to go with R3 headers someday (they don't use the manifold to mount the alt.) and had to get a belt one size longer or shorter than stock, I don't recall. I just extended the stock ammeter wire (a '55 uses 8 AWG for the ammeter, remember) to the stud on the alt. and then used the Speedway plug/wiring so I didn't have to use a special one wire alternator. One wire (which was originally intended for an idiot light connection - it's yellow) has a diode in it, that goes to coil +ive. The other (red) wire the instructions tell you to hook it to the output stud; I prefer to extend it to the starter solenoid as this is the remote voltage sensing for the regulator. By doing this the alternator will regulate itself to output 14V *at the end of the battery cable* not at the alternator, so if there is any voltage drop in the harness it will be compensated.

      The wiring for the stock regulator may be discarded.

      Since you are starting with a '56, you will not have to worry about a voltage conversion, but I would strongly recommend replacing the wiring between the alternator and ammeter and also between the ammeter and starter solenoid with heavier gauge wire; I am assuming that you will be using a 63A alternator which has a possibility of overloading the wiring without an actual fault being present. Keep in mind the stock generator was rated at something like 30 or 35 amperes. Also adding high-amp fuses or fusible links to the harness is a prudent measure.

      good luck

      nate

      --
      55 Commander Starlight
      http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
      --
      55 Commander Starlight
      http://members.cox.net/njnagel

      Comment


      • #4
        N8 I believe those alternator mounts are for V8 engines.
        I would assume a 56 Champion unless stated otherwise has a 6 cylinder champ engine. Good news there is 63-64 OHV six alternator mounts are part of the left motor bracket and should work with the flathead six.
        Check with vendors in Turning Wheels or www.studebakervendors.com

        3E38
        4E2
        4E28
        5E13
        7E7
        8E7
        8E12
        8E28
        4E2
        59 Lark
        etc

        Comment


        • #5
          um... yeah, you are right. brain fart there.

          Come to think of it, did a '56 Champion have an ammeter or an idiot light?

          nate

          --
          55 Commander Starlight
          http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
          --
          55 Commander Starlight
          http://members.cox.net/njnagel

          Comment


          • #6
            Not sure.

            3E38
            4E2
            4E28
            5E13
            7E7
            8E7
            8E12
            8E28
            4E2
            59 Lark
            etc

            Comment


            • #7
              OK, call me completely Old Skool, but I don't get it. Keep in mind I'm far from a purist and presently own 2 (heavily) modified Studes and have owned and admired lots of others.

              What is the problem with a generator system on a fairly stock Studebaker? If the system isn't working or is working poorly, I would think the easiest, cheapest and best fix would be to repair the generator and/or regulator. I could certainly understand the need for an alternator if you have a booming sound system or other major current draws, but for a fairly stock Studebaker (of any vintage), the generator system puts out plenty of power, is dependable, simple, easy to trouble shoot and fix.

              What am I missing?




              Dick Steinkamp
              Bellingham, WA
              Dick Steinkamp
              Bellingham, WA

              Comment


              • #8
                One advantage to an alternator - higher output at low RPM. If you spend lots of time with the lights and heater on you could still run down your battery. In my case I had a Stude with a Flightomatic already installed and a Delco alternator already mounted to the engine, so it was easier to simply proceed with the conversion in any case.

                nate

                --
                55 Commander Starlight
                http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
                --
                55 Commander Starlight
                http://members.cox.net/njnagel

                Comment


                • #9
                  My '59 still has the generator on it. The higher the engine is revved the brighter the headlights shine. It's been a trouble free setup for the 2000 or so miles I've put on it. But, the only thing I have is the lights, a heater, and overdrive. No radio. (Well, not yet...)

                  My Daytona, however, has a Chrysler alternator on it, as quite a few of our Studes around here do. It works pretty well.

                  ___________________________________________

                  Matthew Burnette
                  Hazlehurst, Georgia
                  '59 Scotsman PU
                  '63 Daytona HT



                  http://mbstudebaker.blogspot.com/
                  http://thestudillac.blogspot.com/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    A two wire alternator works better than a 1-wire because of the idle speed of you Stude. One wire alternators are designed to begin charging about 1200 rpms, the idle speed of a modern V8. By contrast a two wire alternator will begin charging as soon as the engine is running regardless of the idle speed which makes it a better choice because our Stude idle speeds are not 1200 rpms. A two wire is what came standard on all GM cars for example from the early 70's on. Those GM alternators also had the voltage regulator built inside the alternator, another very good deal....

                    Alternators do provide a strong output at idle and low engine rpms where as a generator does not. That makes for brighter headlights and also keeps the battery fully charged which makes for easier starting.

                    I have the brackets alternator etc if you need it. The main thing is to get it right the first time.
                    Thanks Randy

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      quote:Originally posted by fifthave

                      A two wire alternator works better than a 1-wire because of the idle speed of you Stude. One wire alternators are designed to begin charging about 1200 rpms, the idle speed of a modern V8. By contrast a two wire alternator will begin charging as soon as the engine is running regardless of the idle speed which makes it a better choice because our Stude idle speeds are not 1200 rpms.
                      Partially true. First of all, I know of no 2 wire alternators. There are one wire and three wire alternators. The one wire is just like a three wire EXCEPT the one wire has a self energizing voltage regulator (the 3 wire "excites" from battery voltage). This means the one wire has to "see" about 1200 RPM ONCE after start up in order to begin charging. A "blip" of the throttle generally accomplishes this and the one wire begins charging and will continue to charge at ANY engine idle speed.

                      Also, I don't believe any production car ever used a one wire alternator. It was "invented" for street rods solely to clean up the engine compartment by reducing the amount of wiring.

                      Lastly, I don't know of any production car (V8 or not) that idles at 1200 RPM. Cars still idle at 500-700 RPM...there are probably some exceptions on the low and high side, however.

                      In direct contrast to my earlier post, I do have a one wire alternator in my Chevy powered '54. It has worked flawlessly for the past 6 years and 30,000 miles. The car idles about 700 RPM and the alternator charges fine at idle. The three wire set up is better (see TransStar's link). I did the one wire SOLELY to have a cleaner engine compartment.



                      I would still suggest sticking with the stock generator system on a fairly stock Studebaker. I'm not sure you'd notice the difference between a generator and an alternator in "healthy" systems under normal driving conditions with stock or near stock electrical loads.




                      Dick Steinkamp
                      Bellingham, WA
                      Dick Steinkamp
                      Bellingham, WA

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        quote:Originally posted by CHAMP

                        That one wire really cleaned that engine up nice Dick!
                        Yep...made it a lot smaller....and orange too




                        Dick Steinkamp
                        Bellingham, WA
                        Dick Steinkamp
                        Bellingham, WA

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          That one wire really cleaned that engine up nice Dick!

                          GARY H 2DR.SEDAN 48 STUDEBAKER CHAMPION NORTHEAST MD.

                          Comment


                          • #14

                            Actually according to MAD electrics history/explanation, 1 wire alternators were originally adapted for industrial/agricultural uses.
                            IE irrigation pumps, forklifts, and tractors which have/had few or no accessories. I put the have/had in there because some modern tractors have more electronic crap than a Cadillac Escalade.

                            quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp

                            quote:Originally posted by fifthave

                            A two wire alternator works better than a 1-wire because of the idle speed of you Stude. One wire alternators are designed to begin charging about 1200 rpms, the idle speed of a modern V8. By contrast a two wire alternator will begin charging as soon as the engine is running regardless of the idle speed which makes it a better choice because our Stude idle speeds are not 1200 rpms.
                            Partially true. First of all, I know of no 2 wire alternators. There are one wire and three wire alternators. The one wire is just like a three wire EXCEPT the one wire has a self energizing voltage regulator (the 3 wire "excites" from battery voltage). This means the one wire has to "see" about 1200 RPM ONCE after start up in order to begin charging. A "blip" of the throttle generally accomplishes this and the one wire begins charging and will continue to charge at ANY engine idle speed.

                            Also, I don't believe any production car ever used a one wire alternator. It was "invented" for street rods solely to clean up the engine compartment by reducing the amount of wiring.

                            Lastly, I don't know of any production car (V8 or not) that idles at 1200 RPM. Cars still idle at 500-700 RPM...there are probably some exceptions on the low and high side, however.

                            In direct contrast to my earlier post, I do have a one wire alternator in my Chevy powered '54. It has worked flawlessly for the past 6 years and 30,000 miles. The car idles about 700 RPM and the alternator charges fine at idle. The three wire set up is better (see TransStar's link). I did the one wire SOLELY to have a cleaner engine compartment.



                            I would still suggest sticking with the stock generator system on a fairly stock Studebaker. I'm not sure you'd notice the difference between a generator and an alternator in "healthy" systems under normal driving conditions with stock or near stock electrical loads.




                            Dick Steinkamp
                            Bellingham, WA
                            [8D]

                            3E38
                            4E2
                            4E28
                            5E13
                            7E7
                            8E7
                            8E12
                            8E28
                            4E2
                            59 Lark
                            etc

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Dick, if a one wire alternator cleaned up the engine compartment that much, where do I install one to clean up the outside of my car? It needs one really bad!
                              P.S. Magnificant engine compartment!

                              Comment

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